I have read all related entries in the books (Wizard, Sorcerer, Spellslinger), but I want other interpretations. Is it possible to dip into one level of Wizard to get the Spellslinger archetype, then only gain Sorcerer (or any other arcane caster) levels after that in order to cast with a gun?
As far as I can tell, the only time it gets questionable is with School of the Gun. But I would assume that, even as a Sorcerer, you still suffer from any opposition school penalties. Everything else seems like it could blend seamlessly with the Sorcerer's ability to cast arcane spells. But please tell me if I am wrong, or if I missed something.
You could choose Transmutation as an Arcane School for a +1 to any physical attribute, but you'd have to have four opposing schools. Let's say they're abjuration, divination, enchantment, and illusion. Then you can freely cast conjuration, evocation, necromancy, and transmutation spells through the gun (as long as they are ranged touch attack, cone, line, or ray spells). Or focus on another one of those four schools and find a decent combo with a bloodline (like evocation and celestial).
I know you might be better off just sticking to the Wizard class, but I'm trying to approach this concept in a more flavorful way.
I know that this isn't an exact answer to what you asked, but I don't have time at the moment to read these, and I want to just say something.
I think, flavor wise, that the spellslinger fits better as a sorcerer archetype. I don't see a studious wizard who spends all his time with his nose in books saying, "Y'know what all these magic words that I have to memorize needs? Guns." However, I can easily picture some dude who was born with the ability to casually toss mage hands at the barmaid's rear seeing a firearm and thinking, "That. With this magic thingamajig. Now."
I know that this isn't an exact answer to what you asked, but I don't have time at the moment to read these, and I want to just say something.
I think, flavor wise, that the spellslinger fits better as a sorcerer archetype. I don't see a studious wizard who spends all his time with his nose in books saying, "Y'know what all these magic words that I have to memorize needs? Guns." However, I can easily picture some dude who was born with the ability to casually toss mage hands at the barmaid's rear seeing a firearm and thinking, "That. With this magic thingamajig. Now."
To counter propose this I see a wizard who has been on the receiving end of a firearm one or two times dedicating his life to finding a way to use it's raw non-magical power to enhance his already prodigious magical powers. (A PC would be this persons apprentice/student). Where a sorcerer looks at the gun, toys with it for about 10 minutes before tossing it behind him as "too complex and unwieldy" before he proceeds to fling scorching rays and fireballs at whatever, hopefully not fire resistant thing is in front of him.
This said I have no input on your rules dilemma, I wouldn't let someone do what your proposing simply because it makes me twitch and smacks of metagaming. (That said I've been convinced via liberal application of backstory and known good RP to allow stranger/more metagamey)
I don't see a studious wizard who spends all his time with his nose in books saying, "Y'know what all these magic words that I have to memorize needs? Guns."
Not only do I disagree with you, that idea is so awesome it's my next PC.
No input on the rules, but I will add that gunslinger, gunmage, what ever would be a better fit with a sorcerer. Anyone who knows of Iron Kingdoms and Warmachine knows that a charming bastard with a gun is a gunmage er... Spellslinger : )
I don't see a studious wizard who spends all his time with his nose in books saying, "Y'know what all these magic words that I have to memorize needs? Guns."Not only do I disagree with you, that idea is so awesome it's my next PC.
A Spellslinger using Words of Power does sound kinda interesting, I shall have to grant you that.
so time for a new gun mage bloodline variant on (arcane bloodline)?
An Arcane bloodline variant. That's what I was thinking, too. But since Sorcerers don't have the arcane school class feature, nor anything else similar to switch out, it seemed a lot easier to me to get all of the archetype flavor from one level of Wizard, then get all the arcane spells from Sorcerer levels. Also, you can still use cantrips that way, unless for some reason you really want to cast Detect Magic and Read Magic as 1st-level spells. =)
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so time for a new gun mage bloodline variant on (arcane bloodline)?An Arcane bloodline variant. That's what I was thinking, too. But since Sorcerers don't have the arcane school class feature, nor anything else similar to switch out, it seemed a lot easier to me to get all of the archetype flavor from one level of Wizard, then get all the arcane spells from Sorcerer levels. Also, you can still use cantrips that way, unless for some reason you really want to cast Detect Magic and Read Magic as 1st-level spells. =)
also IIRC wizard restrictions dont apply to sorcerer abilities.
not sure if the -4 overrides it for item creation in this case
i'd drop school of the gun since sorcs get so few spells anyway, and add gunsmithing as a bonus feat as a bloodline power at 3rd
This said I have no input on your rules dilemma, I wouldn't let someone do what your proposing simply because it makes me twitch and smacks of metagaming. (That said I've been convinced via liberal application of backstory and known good RP to allow stranger/more metagamey)
I understand your metagaming point, but is it really that farfetched from any other multiclassing concept? Especially with all of the potential gun drawbacks and spells known limitations that come with being a Sorcerer.
How about a gun toting PC who attempted learning wizardry, but failed at all of the book keeping and studying that it entailed. Still magically inclined, though, they realized that the studying paid off when it manifested their latent bloodline powers, allowing them to spontaneously cast.
This is an abridged version of what I would present to you if I wanted to roleplay this concept in one of your games. Would you let me do it?
also, maybe make a variant arcane archer that shoots a gun. it could help.
I thought of THAT, too. =)
Change the name to Arcane Marksman, make it more inclusive (not just for elves and half-elves), and have it include any kind of ranged weapon that you aim and shoot. So... pretty much only bows, crossbows, and guns. Maybe change some of the prereq feats to be an "either/or" thing (like Point-Blank Shot or Amateur Gunslinger).
This said I have no input on your rules dilemma, I wouldn't let someone do what your proposing simply because it makes me twitch and smacks of metagaming. (That said I've been convinced via liberal application of backstory and known good RP to allow stranger/more metagamey)I understand your metagaming point, but is it really that farfetched from any other multiclassing concept? Especially with all of the potential gun drawbacks and spells known limitations that come with being a Sorcerer.
How about a gun toting PC who attempted learning wizardry, but failed at all of the book keeping and studying that it entailed. Still magically inclined, though, they realized that the studying paid off when it manifested their latent bloodline powers, allowing them to spontaneously cast.
This is an abridged version of what I would present to you if I wanted to roleplay this concept in one of your games. Would you let me do it?
Possibly, but I'm not your DM. :)
Possibly, but I'm not your DM. :)How about a gun toting PC who attempted learning wizardry, but failed at all of the book keeping and studying that it entailed. Still magically inclined, though, they realized that the studying paid off when it manifested their latent bloodline powers, allowing them to spontaneously cast.
This is an abridged version of what I would present to you if I wanted to roleplay this concept in one of your games. Would you let me do it?
I know you aren't, but I still wanted to ask! Besides, that's a much higher possibility than with my current DM. He's on the "no guns in my fantasy" side of the fence. Which I find to be weird because we're mixing Pathfinder and Eberron, which is already very steampunky. Air elemental powered rifles? Yes, please!
'Son of a Gun' bloodline?
For that you deserve to be shot, in the face, with a large double hackbut under the effects of Gravity Bow while its user is Greater Vital Striking.
by someone who is enlarged'Son of a Gun' bloodline?For that you deserve to be shot, in the face, with a large double hackbut under the effects of Gravity Bow while its user is Greater Vital Striking.
Unfortunately Enlarge Person does nothing for a person with ranged weapons.
it makes the weapon larger thus increasing its damage, which is increased again with gravity bow and then the GVS=Major Damage.
it makes the weapon larger thus increasing its damage, which is increased again with gravity bow and then the GVS=Major Damage.
As soon as something leaves the are of effect of the spell (This being the target of said spell) it returns to it's original size, thus negating the size increase for being bigger.... Unfortunately.
How did all of you also miss the fact that Gravity Bow only works for arrows and bolts, but not any other kinds of ammunition? (Is there some errata I am unawares?)
How did all of you also miss the fact that Gravity Bow only works for arrows and bolts, but not any other kinds of ammunition? (Is there some errata I am unawares?)
Huh.... Did not notice that, so you are right.
I propose a 2nd level version called "Gravity EVERYTHING EVER!" which works with every kind of attack ever, ranged, melee, breath weapons, spells EVERYTHING GETS MORE BETTER! :P Only lasts for 1 round though