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I always saw strength as power given off and constitution as durability. It's the difference between the sprinter and the marathon runner. The same difference between the power of an engine and the fuel efficiency of it. And in that sense, I always imagine that speed would be a subset of strength.
However, the mention of weight lifters always comes up, they are strong but slow. The difference between them and runners though is that bulk, which may add to their lifting capabilities, but it also slows them down.
Today I got this idea of implementing a bulk trait, to represent how bulky they are. The player can decide when they create their character if he or she is bulky but changing it in game would require training or a change of diet. Bulk has both positives and negatives. Bulkier characters hit harder, can take more hits, and are more stable, but they are also slower, less graceful, and have less stamina.
A bulky character gains:
+1 damage
+1 hitpoint
+2 against being tripped, overrun, or bull rushed
+1 fortitude
+2 carrying score
-5 ft of speed
-1 acrobatics, climb, fly, and swim
-4 to constitution checks to running, marches, swimming, starvation and thirst.
Not everyone needs the bulk, for example, Bruce Lee.
Is the idea reasonable?
And is would it be balanced if I implemented it?
Bulk doesn't help you keep from being tripped. I can understand the bullrush and overrun -- but not the tripped. I would also argue that bulk doesn't necessarily help with damage either: Case in point the really (ahem) big person at walmart riding the scouter that can barely move -- such a person is bulky... but not a threat of hurting you with a strike.
It seems a bit odd that they are 'hardier' but at much greater risk of fatigue and starvation/thirst to me.
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+2 against vs trample, overrun, and bull rush
+2 effective str score for determining carrying capacity
-5 ft of speed
-2 acrobatics, climb, fly, and swim
-4 to constitution checks to running, marches, swimming, starvation and thirst.
"bulky" doesnt necessarily mean stronger or tougher. I've known plenty of "bulky" people who always had an infection, and were surprisingly weak for someone their size
By weak you mean of weak constitution, or unhealthy right? I'm trying to be sure as we are using some terms that can easily have bleed over in other areas of the same discussion.
If so then yeah I can see your point... I have had bulkier friends that do get winded easily or always seem ready to eat.
I think the -4 though might be a bit too much. Perhaps simply a -2 there as well? Or maybe dropping that altogether?
I think the +2 CMD versus trample, overrun and bullrush is even against the -5 speed, while the +2 to carrying capacity seems even with the penalty on movement skills too. That last penalty might simply not be needed.
Well I was thinking that being heavy and all, they would have weight behind their hits. Sure they'd probably have a harder time hitting with their weight encumbering them, but if they hit you (or fell on you) it would hit harder than someone with less weight behind their hits. Really thinking about it though, I guess the extra hp is kind of weird. (In my mind I was thinking of it as they have that layer of bulk to take hits, but it would only make sense against blunt attacks)
I'm thinking I should implement this as a template.
Bulk Template:
+2 physical damage
+2 vs trample, overrun, and bull rush
+2 carrying capacity score
DR 1/slashing or piercing*
-5 ft of speed
-2 acrobatics, climb, fly, and swim
-2 to constitution checks to running, marches, swimming, starvation and thirst
* is there an easier way to represent resistance to bludgeoning damage?
I'm trying to keep it fairly balanced to give people the option of their mighty glaciers.
meh... I think you have too many bonuses for too few penalties if you are trying to keep it even (I.E. no effect on CR/whatever).
I have to say bulky people I know bruise and hurt just as much from a baseball bat or my fist as skinnier people do.
You have a point, the DR was just a weird idea.
But I like what I ended up with.
Bulk Template:
+2 melee damage rolls (not applicable to attacks used with finesse)
+2 vs trample, overrun, and bull rush
+2 carrying capacity score
-5 ft of speed
-1 reflex save
-2 acrobatics, climb, fly, and swim
-2 to constitution checks to running, marches, swimming, starvation and thirst
The damage bonus is the biggest advantage, the carrying capacity is just a minor bonus. -5 ft to speed can be pretty brutal though. I think the tradeoffs are fair though.
One of the first things taught in judo and similar arts, is that when a trip is done properly, no amount of size will save you. A sweep is not the only kind of trip, and in many techniques, any bulk is only going to work against you.
Equal to your experience in resisting sweeps, I, as a small fellow, have tripped up opponents with 50+ lbs on me, so while I disagree that size trumps technique, I'll agree that it is an advantage. Truce?
I recognise you are taking the bonus from the "stocky" dwarves, but as a mechanic, I think you have a better thing going with the + to overrun trample and bullrush, I feel that better encapsulate the advantage of a higher "Weight class", and avoids stepping on the toes of the dwarf racial ability a bit.
By the by, this seems to go a bit beyond most traits, but a bit behind a feat. Are you going for a CR+0 template?
Bulk helps against being tripped, I'm sure of it. I was sparring at an MMA school the other day.
Bulk doesn't help at all -- Putting people that are 225+ pounds on their butts is simple mainly because Bulk causes you to be more top heavy... which means you are easier to topple.
Having good strength and agility can help you keep from being tripped... but simple size doesn't help at all.
Well, I said truce with the other guy, so I'll just agree to disagree. I think you are wrong.Bulk helps against being tripped, I'm sure of it. I was sparring at an MMA school the other day.Bulk doesn't help at all -- Putting people that are 225+ pounds on their butts is simple mainly because Bulk causes you to be more top heavy... which means you are easier to topple.
Having good strength and agility can help you keep from being tripped... but simple size doesn't help at all.
Fair enough I know I'm not! ;D (yeah I'll leave off it though -- hard to prove without being in the same area with extra time on our hands and some willing du... err... tar... ahem... practice buddies)
We should get a team of big guys from fat to strong, none who ever wrestled, to see if any of them can beat you up!
(; kidding
I'm game -- sounds like childhood all over again.