Two Weapon Fighter Cavalier Build

[JustABill]

I am making a build based around the idea of getting the most out of the challange abilities extra damage. Basically I want to hit as many times as possible per round, since the extra damage applies to each hit, and crit as often as possible, since the extra damage does not appear to be precision based anymore...

The character would build dex to the point of getting Improved two wpn fighting, also putting as much emphasis on str as possible. The character would start with Simitar/Kukuri, then switch to dual kukri's later in life.

The character will use a lance charge to open the combat when practicle, but is basically a melee build.

I have thought about a fighter or ranger dip, but right now am leaning against either.

Below are the feats I have been looking at, any advice would be appreciated.

level feat
1 Double Slice
1(human) Two Weapon Fighting
3 Weapon Focus (kukri, needed for Improved Crit)
5 ???
6 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7 ???
9 Improved Crit(kukri)
11 Crit Focus
12 Bleading Crit
13 ???
15 ???
17 ???
18 ???
19 ???

I have been thinking about taking some Mounted feats, or possibly continuing further in the Crit Fucus tree, might even bump my dex more and get a third off hand attack. Any thoughts?

[STR Ranger]

If you're going TWF then OOTShield is the way to go since the challenge power adds to your hit. It also let's you get a better version of standstill- use a AOO, instead of CM to stop then moving.

You have two choices: Go with Scimitar/Kukri (get Big Game Hunter instead of Wpn Fcs. Adds to hit and damage vs large or bigger, so anything over CR 9 a stillcommon before that.) A glove of storing will let you two hand the Scimitar when you move or AOO (drawing/sheathing via glove is a free action)

It will leave you enough feats for mounted.

OR you can go Scimitar/Shield. Chews all your feats but better AC.

Either way. Youdon't need to go mounted charges with OOTShiled. Have your mount use his move to close. You quick dismount (swift or free action) and then TWF full attack. It's like a first round pounce.
The horse then flanks with you or runs down other foes with its charge through feat (free trip attempt).

Let me know if either of these sounds good and i'll post a full build.

[JustABill]

Interesting, I like big game hunter. I am not sure about OOShield. I am playing Kingmaker with a large party. Given the wilderness focus, and the large group, I think OODragon works better.

In any event, the OOShield to hit bonus only applies when the target attacks someone other than me, whereas the OODragon challenge works any time I threaten the target (almost all the time), and will help everyone in the party, including a lot of Slow/Med BAB builds. I also really like Strategy and Act as One. Giving all allies an immediate move action could avoid a TPK. In any event, can you elaborate on your dismounting pounce? Is this using the Protect the Meek? If so, I am not sure its worth being staggered the next round...

I'll add Big Game Hunter, in addition to Weapon Focus. It looks like they'll stack, besides, Weapon focus is a prereq for Improved Crit.

I am also thinking about Power Attack, as odd as that sounds for a TWF. It should add some heft to my non-challenge attacks.

[redcelt32]

Help me out with the full attack after fast dismount. AFAIK, the only way that can happen is with a roughrider (mounted fighter). Typically, your mount's move=your move action was my understanding. So you would be gaining a single attack in the charge round by saving yourself a move action to dismount. Is this some new UC feat?

[JustABill]

I think he is talking about "Protect the Meek" 15th level OOShield ability. As an immediate action, you get a move and single attack. Then you get your normal full round action. The next round your staggared. Your great one round, sucks the next round. Great if you can take the foe down in 1 round. I still think I'd rather have "Act as One", especially given the large party, and possibility of leading troops. Speaking of which, I probably aught to save one of the feets for leadership...

[redcelt32]

Ah, yeah so sort of like the oracle of battle's ability. That makes sense. I think I would have remembered someone else getting pounce when I was researching my mounted melee build.

I still wish I could remember why I thought horses were 1x2 squares rather than the standard 2x2 for large creatures, must have been someone's weird house rule that got stuck in my brain.

[STR Ranger]

zorder of the shield Cavalier:

Build: Cavalier 20 (Order of the Shield)
Race: Human
Concept- Commander, Knight of the people
STR 17 (+2 for human)
DEX 17
CON
INT You can dump INT to 7
WIS
CHA You can dump INT to 7

Favored Class: 8 for (+2) banner, the rest for skills
Skills: (with 7 INT) 4(class)-2(INT)+1 Human- 3 per level
2 Flaws- Honorable Challenge, Merciful
2 Traits- Blade of Mercy (Sarenrae)- You don't take -4 to attack when dealing non-lethal damage and get +1 to damage rolls when doing so.
Birthmark- +2 Trait bonus to saves vs. Charm and Compulsion effects.

Feats/Abilities- Based on either Scimitar/Kukri or Scimitar/Shield:

Feats/Special
1 Challenge 1/day, Mount, Tactician (Paired Opportunists)TWF, Combat Reflexes
2 Resolute
3 Cavalier’s Charge, Power Attack
4 Challenge 2/day, Expert Trainer
5 Banner, Big Game Hunter or Improved Shieldbash
6 Mounted Combat or Doubleslcie
7 Challenge 3/day, Shieldslam or Ride by attack
8 Stem The Tide (Standstill)
9 Gtr Tactician (Outflank), ITWF
10 Challenge 4/day
11 Mighty Charge, Shieldmaster or Improved Critical
12 Demanding Challenge, Dazing Assault
13 Challenge 5/day, Two Weapon Rend
14 Gtr Banner
15 Protect the Meek, Bashing Finish or Spirited Charge
16 Challenge 6/day
17 Master Tactician (Coordinated Maneuvers), Feat
18 Feat
19 Challenge 7/day, Feat
20 Supreme Charge

*Note: If you go with 2 blades the last free feats are whatever you like. If you went Scimitar/Shield then you'll need them for your mounted feats. Normally at that high a level I'[d reccomend Mounted Combat, TYrick Riding and Mounted Skirmisher but Cav's have so many charge related abilities you should stick wioth spirited charge.

Shield version AC:

AC= 10 + 6 (Mithral Breastplate) +5(Magic)+5(Amulet)+5(Ring)+5 (Dex+Belt) +5(enhancement)+1(Shield)+5(Shield Enhancement)+5(Defending.Shield Spikes= 52

Your Mounts Feats and the first round POUNCE:

Mount Feats:
1- Light Amour Prof, Iron Will
2- Power Attack
5- Improved Overrun
8- Charge Through
10- Gtr Overrun
13- Med Armor Prof
16- Improved Iron Will
18- Furious Focus

Now the horse gets an ability boost at 4th level. Put it in INT. Your horse caN NOW UNDERSTAND speech. It is now smart enough to understand verbal commands instead of being actively ridden (which normally chews your move action) Tell the horse to 'Charge the GNOLL!' (free action) and you quick dismount when he gets there (free action). Y}ou can now full attack! :)

On Mounted- The big spaces rarely come up. Think of the horse as a PC buddy to flank with, rather than a mount. Ride whenever you can, this guarantees full attacks to close. If one horseback vs a ground based opponent, within range- Horse closes and attempts to Charge Through Overrun (knocking foe prone), you quick dismount (free action) and TWF Full attack a prone opponent (-4 AC vs Melee), and an AOO when he stands. Your class abilities make it ok to charge to close (mount tripping)and dismount.
Later against highly mobile foes- You have your Spirited Charge!!! And you can repeat it.

On Tactician:

This is your best Power. Combat Reflexes and high crit weapons are a must. Grant your allies a +4 Flanking Bonus (+6 with a M<enacing Weapon) and +4 on AOO's. Y}ou said you have a large party so there should be plenty of people to flank with, along with the horse. In some cases you can get a flanking AOO (+8 to hit). TYhink hard about paired oppourtunists- when en enemy provoke's from oneof you- everybody gets an AOO. Works well if you have a tripper!! .

WHY oh WHY no Crit Feats- Static Bonuses to Crits ARE Multiplied (I.E. your challenge damage!!) and you'll get plenty of them with Scimitar/Shield or Scimitar/Kukri. Adding affects like bleed of sickened don't help much when you can 2 round a CR level foe anyway

TYhe reason you don't take crit feats is:
1. Crit Focus is a crap feat tax.
2. TYhe best Condition Feats are Staggered and Stunning, available at 13 and 17 respectively.
3. Dazing Assault is FAR, FAR Better. NO preq's, available at 11, is on or off when you want. Sure it's a -5 to attack but your first attack is gonaa hit (with challange +5 or flanking +4 or AOO +4 or ChARGE +6, so there are a ton of scenario's where you'll get it to hit without sucking your DPR!
4. Compare DAZED vs any crit condition. Get this on and they can't do squat for a round. No moving away. So you can full attack again and again. You're a TWF'r remember?

[JustABill]

Hmm, I like tbe dazing assault. My main reason for the Crit Focus tree was that I expect to be criting a lot anyways, and I need all the damage I can get when not challanging. I might do both and delay the mounted feats till later.

My understand of why you couldn't do a mounted pounce was not that you took an action to instruct the mount to move, but that you were not in position to attack for the full round. (Core Page 202, "If your mount moves more than 5', you can only make a single attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack." The directing your mount to attack is a free action, ride DC 5 with a trained mount. (top of same paragraph). If there is errata on this, I'd love to see it.

Thanks, for the advice. I really like Dazeing Assault and Big Game Hunter