I'll grab a light horse from our herd instead to save some cash.
The mithral is tempting but there are two reasons I don't want to bother with it.
1. I ignore ACP while mounted.
2. It's expensive, even more so than Masterwork.
I'd like to have Oleg put out the word for the Masterwork Full Plate. I don't have all the cash yet but I'll start making deposits and he can order it as soon as he has enough to get it. If I happen to find some in the meantime we can use that stored cash to pay for refitting.
In theory with Ride By Attack I shouldn't be getting hit too often anyway (ha!) so waiting and getting the armor I want anyway makes more sense to me.
Lukan wants some Mithral Full Plate, but it is going to cost 10,500 gold! Maybe we can find one in a loot stash ;) that way it will only cost 5,250.
Take some points in Craft(armor) - it will take a while, but you could make it yourself.
Ah mithral, that miracle metal. I'm waiting on a mithral shirt myself.
On another note, am I the only person whose thinking that keeping the cart and 2 horses may not be a bad idea?
Ah mithral, that miracle metal. I'm waiting on a mithral shirt myself.
On another note, am I the only person whose thinking that keeping the cart and 2 horses may not be a bad idea?
Will probably slow us down some. However, we could keep 2 extra horses so that we have spares if a horse gets taken out and we will be able to switch the cart horses to keep them fresher. Also allows for a lot of feed/rations to be carried (and you cleric's keg of beer).
Will probably slow us down some. However, we could keep 2 extra horses so that we have spares if a horse gets taken out and we will be able to switch the cart horses to keep them fresher. Also allows for a lot of feed/rations to be carried (and you cleric's keg of beer).Ah mithral, that miracle metal. I'm waiting on a mithral shirt myself.
On another note, am I the only person whose thinking that keeping the cart and 2 horses may not be a bad idea?
You can leave the cart at Oleg's so you don't have to drag it everywhere with you. There's more than enough room there.
As a question, since there are no alternate racial traits for Changelings, is it possible that I could use the Alternate Favored Class option from the APG for Humans? This is the ability to pick a new spell instead of the normal hp/skill. The spell has to be lower than the max level, so I really would not be able to choose this until at least level 4 anyway. But it is a nice option to allow a little more versatility.
** spoiler omitted **
Take some points in Craft(armor) - it will take a while, but you could make it yourself.
That's actually a great idea and would fit my character's concept. Now to get some skill points ;) - The fighters arch nemesis: lack of skill points.
Take some points in Craft(armor) - it will take a while, but you could make it yourself.That's actually a great idea and would fit my character's concept. Now to get some skill points ;) - The fighters arch nemesis: lack of skill points.
Yep - in the same problem, not many skill points for the sorcerer.
Lets drop the argument in the Harbringer's campaign. The dudes being a jerk, the fact that he is against an equal split shows he believes the "me" in "team" refers to him. If he keeps being a jerk, then we can ask for a group decision on whether to allow him in the campaign. So far the campaign seems cool, but it remains to see how the megapower in that campaign will work.
You guys mind if I take the chain shirt? I run from ACP like it's the devil, and it's probably the best light armor for me around. I could pay for it on my share of the gold, right?
Also, we could take the horse and cart down to the temple, and leave it there while we run around killing things for their treasure.
You guys mind if I take the chain shirt? I run from ACP like it's the devil, and it's probably the best light armor for me around. I could pay for it on my share of the gold, right?
Also, we could take the horse and cart down to the temple, and leave it there while we run around killing things for their treasure.
That was my recommendation a few posts up on the IC thread. That way we could carry grain and rations for 2-3 5-8 day sorties into the lower area.
You guys mind if I take the chain shirt? I run from ACP like it's the devil, and it's probably the best light armor for me around. I could pay for it on my share of the gold, right?
I have no objections on you taking the shirt. I figured it would end up with you, Lukan or Cambyl.
You would take 200.17g, the Mwk Chain Shirt and 4 trail rations.
Everyone else will add 30g (150/5) to their accounts.
** spoiler omitted **
I have a really bad feeling about using the temple for so many sorties. It sounds like it is extremely close to the Stag Lord's fort and as such could easily be discovered, overrun, and used as a staging ground for his forces. The more we clear the areas around Oleg's out the more we make it easier for the bandit lord to make his way to it.
Hopefully my small donation earlier helped with the siege weapons around the fort. As another week or two passes maybe we can all chip in for some better equipment for the contingent, more guards, or even better siege weapons.
I never even looked. He is a jerk and his self centeredness makes interacting with him less enjoyable. I just want to get past this stuff. I can simply leave him out of the equipment upgrade loop to piss him off. Not sure if I will, but it is something that I can singlehandedly do to counterbalance his bs.
I am not saying to use it as a permanent staging point, but just to leave the wagon with resupply of food and grain, and perhaps some spare arrows and bolts. Not much. For the next two or three sorties, we could work out of there to save us having to cross 3 extra hexes each way.
We could also use the bandit outpost and hide our goods, either way is fine with me, just hate to waste 2 days traveling each round trip. The faster we get to this elk lord, the faster we shut him down.
I don't think it will cause too much trouble. We'd probably stay there the first night and help get Jhod situated. After that we'd stop in maybe one or two more times for less than a few hours to swap supplies. It shouldn't draw too much attention. I'll let someone else be in charge of picking the supplies.
9 horses is worth 37.5*9 = 337.5g. We could trade him the horses for food/grain/bolts/blah of equal or lesser value and just give him or Kresten's guardsmen the remaining horses as a sign of good faith.
I don't think it will cause too much trouble. We'd probably stay there the first night and help get Jhod situated. After that we'd stop in maybe one or two more times for less than a few hours to swap supplies. It shouldn't draw too much attention. I'll let someone else be in charge of picking the supplies.
9 horses is worth 37.5*9 = 337.5g. We could trade him the horses for food/grain/bolts/blah of equal or lesser value and just give him or Kresten's guardsmen the remaining horses as a sign of good faith.
9 horses after we picked out 2 to pull the cart?
Realistically if we traded 337.5g to Oleg for supplies it would be enough to let our little group survive very well for at least a month or two. I'm really big on getting the small details like food and water out of the way with as quickly as possible. If everyone were to agree, would it be alright if we traded in the horses for a free pass to not have to deal with food and water and the necessities for awhile? I can understand setting up a forward operating base and using a wagon, but beyond that it seems not very fun to have to do book-keeping for X rations, X water skins, X grain, etc. Unless we have a book-keeping type here that would enjoy it?
Actually, it was 13 horses so we'd be trading off 11. That gives us 412.5g to barter with. Water should be easy enough to take care of due to the streams and rivers around the green belt. Horses can graze wherever there's grass so I've never bothered tracking or buying grain. Rations help us move quickly while exploring, but anyone with a few points in survival can take 20 and feed the group for a day at the cost of moving at half speed. These things are more of a luxery but they do well to speed things along.
The stuff that I, personally, would find worthwhile would be: tents, bolts, rope, tools, torches, etc... Basically the exploration gear that is always useful but too cumbersome to be worthwhile.
Think for sanity's sake I'll go with DM AK's suggestion with houseruling the creations feats to be 100% the cost which makes sense as you can build buildings that generate magic items, though you still have to buy the magic items or you can sell them on or if you want to piss off the locals you just take the item for yourself.Basically you guys would end up with far more magic items that for your level and will probably make all the encounters a cake-walk in comparison.
Is this ruling still in effect? I was thinking about going down the Master Craftsman -> Craft Magic Arms and Armor route, but if there is no benefit to doing so...then... probably not. Then again, it'd be really awesome to craft magical armor without using spells =). C'mon Aron, its just armor ;) heheh.
One feat that would be very useful would be for Cambyl to take Craft Wondrous Items at level 3. This would be great for crafting magic belts and headbands for everyone so that we get our stats bumped up, which means lots more damage for the fighters and lots more spells for us casters. As a cleric, he will have all the Bull's Strength and Fox's Cunning spells whereas I will only get these if I select them with my limited slots.
A light load for a regular horse is 228 lbs so that’s 456 lbs to pull the cart at full speed (assuming we’re using the CRB wagon and not the UC Wagons). Plus we’ll have Lukan’s pack mule should he choose to keep it and the horses each of us are riding. I’ve compiled a short list of items that we could potentially use the horses to barter for. I’m hoping that this could be a good starting point for other people to add to and remove from before we leave the outpost. I don’t mind making these types of decisions but I’d like to give everyone the opportunity for their input before doing so.
412.5g available.
Chest, Large (empty) – 10g, 100lbs
Lock, Good – 80, 1lb
Kit, Cooking – 1g, 2lbs
Piton (x20) – 2g, 10lbs
Rations, Trail per day (x100) – 50g, 100lbs
Rope, Hemp (50ft) (x5) – 5g, 50lbs
Saddle, Pack (x2) – 10g, 30lbs
Tent, medium (x3) – 45g, 90lbs
Tool, Crowbar – 2g, 5lbs
Tool, Hammer – .5g, 2lbs
Tool, Miner’s Pick – 3g, 10lbs
Tool, Saw – .04g, 2lbs
Total Cost: 208.54g
Total Weight: 402lbs
Source => Link
I whole heartedly support anyone who will be crafting for the team. Ranger has a limited spell list and I don't think there would be enough benefits to spend a feat and a bunch of ranks in spellcraft for it so hats off to you folks.
Aron - 75% cost may be a good meeting ground???
Is this ruling still in effect? I was thinking about going down the Master Craftsman -> Craft Magic Arms and Armor route, but if there is no benefit to doing so...then... probably not. Then again, it'd be really awesome to craft magical armor without using spells =). C'mon Aron, its just armor ;) heheh.
Think for sanity's sake I'll go with DM AK's suggestion with houseruling the creations feats to be 100% the cost which makes sense as you can build buildings that generate magic items, though you still have to buy the magic items or you can sell them on or if you want to piss off the locals you just take the item for yourself.Basically you guys would end up with far more magic items that for your level and will probably make all the encounters a cake-walk in comparison.
mundane is fine and won't need the rule. It's hard to abuse where as with magic items it's incredibly easy to abuse the year or so building kingdoms as it would give you such a insane and long period of time to make and sell the items.
Just a heads up, I'm going to be staying at Alex's for a bit so I'll be travelling to Ukrain on the 9th so posing will be slow whilst I'm over there taking it easy. Just a heads up.
Just a heads up, I'm going to be staying at Alex's for a bit so I'll be travelling to Ukrain on the 9th so posing will be slow whilst I'm over there taking it easy. Just a heads up.
No worries. I have a feeling that the overall posting on this site will feel a dramatic change after Friday...
Just a heads up, I'm going to be staying at Alex's for a bit so I'll be travelling to Ukrain on the 9th so posing will be slow whilst I'm over there taking it easy. Just a heads up.No worries. I have a feeling that the overall posting on this site will feel a dramatic change after Friday...
Why's that?
Ah yes. I've never played that series, I'm currently playing FO:NV, Dungeon Defenders, and Torchlight.
SKYRIM!!!
Hahaha, just when we were about to go 'splorin again.
Guys I need you to say that I am crazy, but I think it takes ridiculously long to craft anything. It would take 14 weeks to create a suit of full plate (Take 10, with +10 gives a result of 20, the DC would be 19, so 20x19=380silver pieces or 38 gold. 1/3 the cost of full plate is 500 so 500/38 = 13.15... Now a mithral full plate would take approx 93 weeks with a take 10, skill +10.
OR would it take even longer using the full price? Oi! I don't know, this is crazy. Never looked into crafting before.
EDIT: Just watched the Skyrim video. My computer would crap out if I tried to play that.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. I have to share it with my girlfriend and the only time I'm able to play xbox is during my son's naptime or bedtime. If I do get a solid block to crack out with, I'll be sure to update Ganit from my phone (the computer being a respectable 7ft away from the TV, albeit behind a door) with the occasional smart ass remark or inflammatory poke.
Interesting(ish) sidenote: It was the elder scrolls games that got me into playing d&d so this is kind of a big deal for me.
Something tells me I had like Elder Scrolls I or II on the PC way back when, not really sure though, was a long time ago.
SKYRIM!!!Hahaha, just when we were about to go 'splorin again.
Guys I need you to say that I am crazy, but I think it takes ridiculously long to craft anything. It would take 14 weeks to create a suit of full plate (Take 10, with +10 gives a result of 20, the DC would be 19, so 20x19=380silver pieces or 38 gold. 1/3 the cost of full plate is 500 so 500/38 = 13.15... Now a mithral full plate would take approx 93 weeks with a take 10, skill +10.
OR would it take even longer using the full price? Oi! I don't know, this is crazy. Never looked into crafting before.
EDIT: Just watched the Skyrim video. My computer would crap out if I tried to play that.
You can do it in downtime. Basically you'll have 12 turns of downtime and each turn being worth 1 month. If you add to the fact you can take money out of the treasury (though it'll slightly piss off the populaton) then you see the reason for the 100% on magic items. 93 weeks sounds bloody insane though. Who knows, maybe one of the random rolls for magic item production brings up a magical mithral fullplate :p.
What happened when Davor joined Alex's KM campaign he ended up rolling up a +2 Darkwood heavy repeater crossbow and being a inqisitor I was proficient in it :p Not sure if it was a lucky or unlucky roll as I had to owe money back to have it.
SKYRIM!!!
I'm saving my money for Saints Row The Third which comes out on the day I arrive back home, plus I have the pre-order pack with comes with the car that has a cannon that can suck people in and launch them in the air. Oh, the fun I will have on that game :D. Dildo Bat FTW!
My friend wants me to pick up Saints Row 3 so we can co-op. Looks interesting.
My friend wants me to pick up Saints Row 3 so we can co-op. Looks interesting.
Looks like a lot of mindless fun. :)
Especially with Professor Genki's Super Ethical Reality Show! Fun-time, Murder-time!
I apologize again for my lack of posting. I will try to make up for it next week.
I apologize again for my lack of posting. I will try to make up for it next week.
Just so that you know, while you have been ignoring us, Lukan, Brom and Ganit drank all your beer.
I apologize again for my lack of posting. I will try to make up for it next week.Just so that you know, while you have been ignoring us, Lukan, Brom and Ganit drank all your beer.
Don't you implicate me in this.... Cambyl has 5 crits owed to him by the dice gods.
Added the stats for Packrat and the gear I purchased.
Aron, I think I may have a solution to the magic item crafting process in Kingmaker. I think it makes quite a bit of sense to reward a player for "selling" feat slots for items. Using the 100% cost just doesn't add any benefit because it would be like buying the item from a merchant. I guess I can see how it would reward the group by getting the item quicker, but in the end it would effectively do nothing to really enhance the party. It comes down to a wasted feat. Anyway, my suggestion is at the bottom and I will start with the numbers crunch:
1. Using basic magic armor creation rules you could make approximately 365,000 (182,500 when sold) gold worth of armor within the down time of this AP (12 months). That's the wealth of a level 16.5 character!
Item Craft Cost Benefit Time
+2 Armor 2,000 +2,000 **4 Days**
Because time seems to be the real issue in this AP, I suggest we just increase the time it takes to create magical items during this time span. Correct me if I am wrong, but there is about 1 day per week in most adventures that characters can sit down and craft. This gives the group about a month to create a +2 item.
My solution is that the characters would be consumed with doing whatever they were doing during this 12 month time frame that they would also only have 1 day to 'enchant' per week. This would allow the characters 1/7th of that wealth which is a *gain* of 26,071 (divided equally amongst the group that is 4345). If we add in Ganit's suggestion of 75% then this *gain* would be 13,035.5 (2,172 per character). I think this amount is equal to the cost of 1 feat, even more so for my character that requires 2 feats and 1 skill.
**My solution is give us 1 day per week to craft magic items and raise the cost to 75% base.**
((Mundane crafting would fall outside of this ruling, I'd hope, because it is simply ridiculously time consuming as it is.))
But, yeah, magic item creation feats are broken =P.
What exactly is the issue with crafting magic items? Is it that with the extended time in this AP we will all end up with Belts of Physical Might +6 at the end of a year or something? Sorry, I just am not familiar with the AP other than what is in the player's guide which really does not address this.
Aron, I think I may have a solution to the magic item crafting process in Kingmaker. I think it makes quite a bit of sense to reward a player for "selling" feat slots for items. Using the 100% cost just doesn't add any benefit because it would be like buying the item from a merchant. I guess I can see how it would reward the group by getting the item quicker, but in the end it would effectively do nothing to really enhance the party. It comes down to a wasted feat. Anyway, my suggestion is at the bottom and I will start with the numbers crunch:
1. Using basic magic armor creation rules you could make approximately 365,000 (182,500 when sold) gold worth of armor within the down time of this AP (12 months). That's the wealth of a level 16.5 character!
Item Craft Cost Benefit Time
+2 Armor 2,000 +2,000 **4 Days**Because time seems to be the real issue in this AP, I suggest we just increase the time it takes to create magical items during this time span. Correct me if I am wrong, but there is about 1 day per week in most adventures that characters can sit down and craft. This gives the group about a month to create a +2 item.
My solution is that the characters would be consumed with doing whatever they were doing during this 12 month time frame that they would also only have 1 day to 'enchant' per week. This would allow the characters 1/7th of that wealth which is a *gain* of 26,071 (divided equally amongst the group that is 4345). If we add in Ganit's suggestion of 75% then this *gain* would be 13,035.5 (2,172 per character). I think this amount is equal to the cost of 1 feat, even more so for my character that requires 2 feats and 1 skill.
**My solution is give us 1 day per week to craft magic items and raise the cost to 75% base.**
((Mundane crafting would fall outside of this ruling, I'd hope, because it is simply ridiculously time consuming as it is.))
But, yeah, magic item creation feats are broken =P.
Sorry but I have to stick to the 100% rule.
So - if we take an item creation feat, we have to pay 100% of the base instead of the normal 50% to create the item. I just want to understand before I start taking feats that are useless.
What exactly is the issue with crafting magic items? Is it that with the extended time in this AP we will all end up with Belts of Physical Might +6 at the end of a year or something? Sorry, I just am not familiar with the AP other than what is in the player's guide which really does not address this.
Crafting Feats are already very powerful for an adventuring party to have. I play in a home game where my wizard has most of the crafting Feats, and I churn out magic items during down time. The party has effectively twice as much power as it should. Now imagine an adventure where you have months of downtime instead of a few precious days and an entire kingdom's wealth to use in said crafting, and you can see why crafting Feats have to be modified to keep the balance in line.
What exactly is the issue with crafting magic items? Is it that with the extended time in this AP we will all end up with Belts of Physical Might +6 at the end of a year or something? Sorry, I just am not familiar with the AP other than what is in the player's guide which really does not address this.
Besides the leadership feat, magic item crafting are feats that can increase a character's power beyond the 'balance' of the feat. You can increase your wealth by level very quickly with magic item crafting if you have the time. Most feats will give around a +1 to hit or +1 to damage. With magic item creation feats, you can give yourself a bonus +1 to hit, damage, ac, etc as easy as spending that extra 50% that you saved on a new magic item or a better one. It is harder to balance the gain from magic item creation feats compared to other feats.
What exactly is the issue with crafting magic items? Is it that with the extended time in this AP we will all end up with Belts of Physical Might +6 at the end of a year or something? Sorry, I just am not familiar with the AP other than what is in the player's guide which really does not address this.Crafting Feats are already very powerful for an adventuring party to have. I play in a home game where my wizard has most of the crafting Feats, and I churn out magic items during down time. The party has effectively twice as much power as it should. Now imagine an adventure where you have months of downtime instead of a few precious days and an entire kindom's wealth to use in said crafting, and you can see why crafting Feats have to be modified to keep the balance in line.
what he said
So - if we take an item creation feat, we have to pay 100% of the base instead of the normal 50% to create the item. I just want to understand before I start taking feats that are useless.
not useless as the kingdom wealth does cap at a certain level which is only enough for +1 weapons so in this case crafting magic items would be great. As Jameson said above, the balance would be all over the place.
So - if we take an item creation feat, we have to pay 100% of the base instead of the normal 50% to create the item. I just want to understand before I start taking feats that are useless.
Looks like that is the case. Absolutely worthless feats now. Oh well. It solves my dilemma of choosing between really effective level 5 and 7 feats and item creation feats.
EDIT: Hmmm... the kingdom wealth level will cap, but surrounding cities will not. It'd be quick and easy to go pick up the items we need with a any sort of travel spell.
Cities have a maximum base value- want your favourite sword upgraded or buy a powerful weapon you have specialised in? Won't be happening later because its value is too high- without some item creation feats your completely at the mercy of your magic item slots just happening to hit the right combination of d100 rolls to produce an item you'd like. You won't be able to simply buy a +3 item- you'll have to hope it gets rolled.
With all the downtime thats available in Kingmaker(YEARS) item creation feats in a 6 player group is essentially a few feats among six characters in order to effectively DOUBLE your wealth by level. Thats not a cost, its an absolute no brainer. Wealth by level is partially used to determine CR and you would simply stomp through the AP with double wealth.
The feats aren't useless- but if you still want to see them that way then... don't take them? None of you get compulsary item creation feats anyway.
I understand the kingdom-running system a bit, as per the Jon Brazer product (which contains the rules apart from the campaign stuff), and I honestly don't see my character (or any kind of kingdom) withdrawing gold from the treasury. It's extremely expensive and inefficient and, most importantly, really pisses people off (and if I understood the phase rules well, will cost at least one more BP on the next round as the kingdom will have to reduce the unrest gained instead of generating an extra BP from the Stability check).
Resuming, it would cost a LOT (Unrest, +1 BP to deal with the unrest) to gain VERY little, and it would damage the kingdom quite a lot. I say we be done with that rule just to avoid the temptation anyway :)
The only thing I know about kingdom building is drawn from the Kingdom sheet at the back of the player's guide. I've decided over the past few months that Ganit is more/less a libertarian in his political beliefs so the idea that he will eventually be a government official is going to be kind of weird.
As DM, Aron you could easily throw down a DBAA tax on anyone who is doing magic crafting. Maybe we can craft at 50-75% sales price but we would have to give the kingdom a set amount of gold for the number of items we can build in a month/year. This campaign has already been scaled to accommodate 6 plays (Thanks Alex!) so our enemies will be notably tougher to kill and be able to kill most of us in a single, well placed hit (Thanks Alex!) so it may be worth the cost.
Side note, How F'ing amazing is Breaking Bad!?