I hear there is a Pathfinder game (being played by the crazy people aforementioned in the 'Things you may not know changed in PF' thread) and that it is just generally absurd (there are 3 PCs trying to do nonsensical multiclassing - a Rogue wanting to multiclass Wizard and a Monk/Witch - and 1 NPC Cleric 3x their level and the game is balanced for the high level).
In light of that, I thought I might come in and make a nuisance of myself. I want to play a Half-Orc Inquisitor that focuses on Intimidation and using a Heavy Repeating Crossbow.
Provided I am allowed, I plan to:
- replace Orc Ferocity with Sacred Tattoo (I wish 90% of the Orc racial traits didn't replace Orc Ferocity).
- take the Preacher archetype at 3rd level
- worship Pharasma and take the Heresy Inquisition
My clearest problem is going to be feats to both support crossbow combat and intimidation, since both of those are feat heavy purposes unto themselves. And figuring out where I will put my Orc +2 racial ability bonus at a distant second.
I am asking for help on the "my problem" items, and taking suggestions on the rest.
PS. I may make something else than an inquisitor, but leaning towards inquisitor.
First issue I see: it costs you a feat to be proficient in Repeating Heavy Crossbows, whereas regular old Repeating Crossbows you are proficient with by default as an Inquisitor.
Mistake, or intentional?
First issue I see: it costs you a feat to be proficient in Repeating Heavy Crossbows, whereas regular old Repeating Crossbows you are proficient with by default as an Inquisitor.
Mistake, or intentional?
Mistake. I didn't realize they weren't proficient in repeating heavy crossbows. So I will take a normal repeating crossbow then since they for whatever reason aren't proficient with heavy repeating crossbows. Or a longbow since if I have to use a d8 then I am going to get something that inherently gets full attacks and can add to damage dealt easier and won't burn as many feats.
Mistake. I didn't realize they weren't proficient in repeating heavy crossbows. So I will take a normal repeating crossbow then since they for whatever reason aren't proficient with heavy repeating crossbows. Or a longbow since if I have to use a d8 then I am going to get something that inherently gets full attacks and can add to damage dealt easier and won't burn as many feats.
I could see the repeater being useful for a high wisdom spellcasting inquisitor, maybe, if the idea of having spells with saves appeals to you, and you dont care to have a lot of strength for a longbow.
I did pretty well with a 12 Str Archer/Inquisitor with a longbow (up until the party killed her to stop her from TPKing the party while dominated), but it did take until level 5 and Bane for her to really come online. But once you have a magic bow, Bane, and a Judgement running all at once (and possibly Divine Favor/Power?), damage doesn't feel too bad even without a huge strength modifier.
The longbow, however, is almost certainly the 'better' choice for effectiveness :/
Clearly. However, I'm still not sure what feats to take - though obviously the crossbow traits are now unnecessary. Nor any idea what traits would be good (if I can take them).
I'm thinking at least Dazzling Display at some point which will require Weapon Focus at level 3+. I'm thinking I will go with Point Blank Shot at first level (or Precise Shot depending on how anal the DM is about shooting into melee). Beside those, not sure since I had been thinking crossbow which burns another couple requirements.
Question, are you going pure longbow, or do you want to be able to switch to melee when necessary?
Question, are you going pure longbow, or do you want to be able to switch to melee when necessary?
That clearly depends on how ability scores are proportioned and what I get in strength. However, as I am an Inquisitor and ranged by itself is feat heavy, never mind intimidation buffing, it's going to be better to target feats with those ideas in mind - ie, Cornugan Smash and Power Attack are out as choices. I will probably fight with a Falchion if I have to fight melee, but otherwise I will be using a Longbow.
Clearly. However, I'm still not sure what feats to take - though obviously the crossbow traits are now unnecessary. Nor any idea what traits would be good (if I can take them).
I'm thinking at least Dazzling Display at some point which will require Weapon Focus at level 3+. I'm thinking I will go with Point Blank Shot at first level (or Precise Shot depending on how anal the DM is about shooting into melee). Beside those, not sure since I had been thinking crossbow which burns another couple requirements.
Rapid Shot is almost certainly a must-have at 5, due to it interacting VERY well with Bane; as such your level 1 or 3 feat has to be point blank, so it might as well be your level 1. I'd say Weapon Focus at level 3, as it was my experience that targets were either numerous (meaning that I could shoot at the enemies backline or where they weren't engaged) or big enough that you avoid the 'in melee' penalty a lot of the time with positioning; Precise Shot is great, but it doesn't apply to each and every attack roll made like Weapon Focus...
Deadly Aim could also be an option, if you find yourself not going up against high AC opponents.
I'm not sure I like Dazzling Display on a archer-inquisitor. Its a full round action, which as an archer, is very easy to use for a full attack by the time you can have Diplay as an option. As well, its short range, which can be painful.
EDIT: Additional note on switching things up for melee: part of whats so great about being an inquisitor is how versatile judgements make you. Attack bonuses translate to CMB right? Nasty caster getting you down? Throw up an attack judgement, an go grab him, and next turn Pin him and prevent him from doing much of anything. Not ALWAYS useful, but a great way to compensate for low stats.
I'm not sure I like Dazzling Display on a archer-inquisitor. Its a full round action, which as an archer, is very easy to use for a full attack by the time you can have Diplay as an option. As well, its short range, which can be painful.
Those are interesting points, but as a 3/4 BAB class, Inquisitors aren't rolling in full-attack attacks, but I will review what I want to do by the time I am ready to take Dazzling Display. Right now, I am level 2 (maybe 1, but probably 2)
However, you have to be in the same range to use PBS as you would to use DD.
However, you have to be in the same range to use PBS as you would to use DD.
I suppose the difference in perceived range is in how I visualise things: as Display works on everything withing 30" of you, it rewards being in the thick of things.
PBS doesn't care if anything but your target is within 30". Which means you can hang a bit further back with full benefit from it.
I'm not sure I like Dazzling Display on a archer-inquisitor. Its a full round action, which as an archer, is very easy to use for a full attack by the time you can have Diplay as an option. As well, its short range, which can be painful.Those are interesting points, but as a 3/4 BAB class, Inquisitors aren't rolling in full-attack attacks, but I will review what I want to do by the time I am ready to take Dazzling Display. Right now, I am level 2 (maybe 1, but probably 2)
However, you have to be in the same range to use PBS as you would to use DD.
As an archer, you are going to be full attacking a lot once you get rapid shot.
As an archer, you are going to be full attacking a lot once you get rapid shot.
I'm not sure I like Dazzling Display on a archer-inquisitor. Its a full round action, which as an archer, is very easy to use for a full attack by the time you can have Diplay as an option. As well, its short range, which can be painful.Those are interesting points, but as a 3/4 BAB class, Inquisitors aren't rolling in full-attack attacks, but I will review what I want to do by the time I am ready to take Dazzling Display. Right now, I am level 2 (maybe 1, but probably 2)
However, you have to be in the same range to use PBS as you would to use DD.
But you still don't get as many attacks as a full BAB character and not as early.
But as usual, this is getting off-topic.
Dazzling Display is possible in the future. PBS is at first level and WF Longbow will probably be third. After that Rapid Shot will be on the list and maybe Deadly Aim but besides that, not sure where to go.
As an archer, you are going to be full attacking a lot once you get rapid shot.
I'm not sure I like Dazzling Display on a archer-inquisitor. Its a full round action, which as an archer, is very easy to use for a full attack by the time you can have Diplay as an option. As well, its short range, which can be painful.Those are interesting points, but as a 3/4 BAB class, Inquisitors aren't rolling in full-attack attacks, but I will review what I want to do by the time I am ready to take Dazzling Display. Right now, I am level 2 (maybe 1, but probably 2)
However, you have to be in the same range to use PBS as you would to use DD.
But you still don't get as many attacks as a full BAB character and not as early.
But as usual, this is getting off-topic.
Dazzling Display is possible in the future. PBS is at first level and WF Longbow will probably be third. After that Rapid Shot will be on the list and maybe Deadly Aim but besides that, not sure where to go.
On an inquisitor, I would probably take rapid shot and deadly aim before weapon focus. You have lots of options for getting +to hit from judgements and spells and a lot of inquisitor abilities add damage to each attack.
On an inquisitor, I would probably take rapid shot and deadly aim before weapon focus. You have lots of options for getting +to hit from judgements and spells and a lot of inquisitor abilities add damage to each attack.
I dont know I totally agree with this. At level 3 at least, my archer inquisitor was spread a bit thin statwise (of course, I had Charisma being positive, as I didn't have access to the Conversion/Heresy Inquisitions at the time either), and a +1 to hit would have fealt like a huge boon at the time. Certainly, a -1 to hit from Deadly Aim would have been pretty painful.
This was definately less true by level 5 with Bane and Judgements scaling upwards in effectiveness though.
On an inquisitor, I would probably take rapid shot and deadly aim before weapon focus. You have lots of options for getting +to hit from judgements and spells and a lot of inquisitor abilities add damage to each attack.I dont know I totally agree with this. At level 3 at least, my archer inquisitor was spread a bit thin statwise (of course, I had Charisma being positive, as I didn't have access to the Conversion/Heresy Inquisitions at the time either), and a +1 to hit would have fealt like a huge boon at the time. Certainly, a -1 to hit from Deadly Aim would have been pretty painful.
This was definately less true by level 5 with Bane and Judgements scaling upwards in effectiveness though.
Bless would give you a +1 to hit(and the party as well). Deadly Aim would be the level 5 feat, so you wouldn't be taking the -1 until you have the additional +1 from the judgement. Rapid Shot is generally an increase in damage at level 3 since most things will have an AC around 18. Plus, I hate only have one shot a round. It puts you way too much at the mercy of a few bad die rolls. The only real reason to take Weapon Focus is to qualify for Dazzling Display.
Bless would give you a +1 to hit(and the party as well). Deadly Aim would be the level 5 feat, so you wouldn't be taking the -1 until you have the additional +1 from the judgement. Rapid Shot is generally an increase in damage at level 3 since most things will have an AC around 18. Plus, I hate only have one shot a round. It puts you way too much at the mercy of a few bad die rolls. The only real reason to take Weapon Focus is to qualify for Dazzling Display.On an inquisitor, I would probably take rapid shot and deadly aim before weapon focus. You have lots of options for getting +to hit from judgements and spells and a lot of inquisitor abilities add damage to each attack.I dont know I totally agree with this. At level 3 at least, my archer inquisitor was spread a bit thin statwise (of course, I had Charisma being positive, as I didn't have access to the Conversion/Heresy Inquisitions at the time either), and a +1 to hit would have fealt like a huge boon at the time. Certainly, a -1 to hit from Deadly Aim would have been pretty painful.
This was definately less true by level 5 with Bane and Judgements scaling upwards in effectiveness though.
Did I mention that the game is being balanced around a three person level 2 and one person level 7 party? Pretty sure I did.
I confused myself in thinking WF was a pre-req for Rapid Shot when it is only PBS. I may take it at level 3, then. But perhaps I can get a more generous suggestion for a fuller build, out to at least 11 or 12 maybe.
And what would good traits be were they available?
I confused myself in thinking WF was a pre-req for Rapid Shot when it is only PBS. I may take it at level 3, then. But perhaps I can get a more generous suggestion for a fuller build, out to at least 11 or 12 maybe.
And what would good traits be were they available?
Reactionary is always great. With good dex, wisdom, and reactionary, your initiative will already be in the neighborhood of stellar. With Improved Init an option down the road.
I confused myself in thinking WF was a pre-req for Rapid Shot when it is only PBS. I may take it at level 3, then. But perhaps I can get a more generous suggestion for a fuller build, out to at least 11 or 12 maybe.
And what would good traits be were they available?
Armor expert is a favorite for any stealth character. It allows you to have no armor check penalty with regular studded armor, MW chain shirt, and mithril breast plate.
I see I'm not going to get any suggestions for feats at later levels past the obvious ones.
I see I'm not going to get any suggestions for feats at later levels past the obvious ones.
After you hit level 5, you should have point blank shot, rapid shot, and deadly aim. Those are the basic must haves for an archer.
From there, it really depends on what you feel your character is lacking. If you want more damage, many shot and later improved critical. Having trouble hitting, weapon focus. Having problems getting spells off, combat casting. It really depends on what you feel you need at that point.
Don't forget Precise Shot (and later Improved Precise Shot), unless you plan on going for a switch hitter build (which is a bit harder to do on an inquisitor than a ranger).
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As to the first part of the post... Inquisitors should be proficient in repeating crossbows of both types. Under their proficiency section it says "repeating crossbow." While under the weapon table on Page 143 it separates the two, under the description of the weapon it is listed under Crossbow, Repeating and lists both heavy and light under the description. This leads me to believe Inquisitors should get both proficiencies.
| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
As to the first part of the post... Inquisitors should be proficient in repeating crossbows of both types. Under their proficiency section it says "repeating crossbow." While under the weapon table on Page 143 it separates the two, under the description of the weapon it is listed under Crossbow, Repeating and lists both heavy and light under the description. This leads me to believe Inquisitors should get both proficiencies.
But, unlike Compound bows, it doesn't state proficiency with Repeating Crossbows covers proficiency with Heavy Repeating Crossbows. I'd FAQ it, but like anyone is going to get to that. Of course, I have no idea how they would be different in the first place. Of course, a small crossbow is exotic like it is somehow a significantly different weapon than a normal crossbow.
EDIT: On the PRD (not the book or d20pfsrd), it lists a Light Repeating Crossbow and a Heavy Repeating Crossbow, so perhaps proficiency with "repeating crossbow" is both. And since the Inquisitor is also proficiency with the hand crossbow, I suppose it makes since that they have both. However, that needs to be listed explicitly here and specifically identified whether they are a single proficiency for both or a separate proficiency for purposes of EWP.
Since it is logical to assume the Inquisitor knows all about crossbows, I think I am back to planning to use a Heavy Repeating Crossbow.
Since it is logical to assume the Inquisitor knows all about crossbows, I think I am back to planning to use a Heavy Repeating Crossbow.
In that case, dont forget to grab improved critical. You've got lots of static, non-variable +damage to multiply!
As to the first part of the post... Inquisitors should be proficient in repeating crossbows of both types. Under their proficiency section it says "repeating crossbow." While under the weapon table on Page 143 it separates the two, under the description of the weapon it is listed under Crossbow, Repeating and lists both heavy and light under the description. This leads me to believe Inquisitors should get both proficiencies.But, unlike Compound bows, it doesn't state proficiency with Repeating Crossbows covers proficiency with Heavy Repeating Crossbows. I'd FAQ it, but like anyone is going to get to that. Of course, I have no idea how they would be different in the first place. Of course, a small crossbow is exotic like it is somehow a significantly different weapon than a normal crossbow.
EDIT: On the PRD (not the book or d20pfsrd), it lists a Light Repeating Crossbow and a Heavy Repeating Crossbow, so perhaps proficiency with "repeating crossbow" is both. And since the Inquisitor is also proficiency with the hand crossbow, I suppose it makes since that they have both. However, that needs to be listed explicitly here and specifically identified whether they are a single proficiency for both or a separate proficiency for purposes of EWP.
Not that it is official or anything, but herolab gives the inquisitor both heavy and light repeating crossbow profiencies.
How about something like this?
1 PBS
3 Rapid Shot
5 Deadly Aim
7 Precise Shot
9 WF (repeater or longbow)
11 Dazzling Display (bow)
13 Improved Critical (bow)
I would focus on ranged combat, like people are reccomending.
1-5 PBS, PS, RS
7 Skill Focus Intimidate
9. Many Shot
11. Weapon Focus
13+ random feats that will help
The big thing to look at for an Intimidation based Inquisitor is to look at the spells. Save or Sucks get better with a -2 to the enemies save, and the inquisitor gets a few good ones.
Castigate (lvl2) is a big spell for you. Intimidate the oppoent, make them shaken. Then cast castigate the next round. They fail their save, they are pannicked. If they pass, they are feared for 1 round.
I would focus on ranged combat, like people are reccomending.
1-5 PBS, PS, RS
7 Skill Focus Intimidate
9. Many Shot
11. Weapon Focus
13+ random feats that will helpThe big thing to look at for an Intimidation based Inquisitor is to look at the spells. Save or Sucks get better with a -2 to the enemies save, and the inquisitor gets a few good ones.
Castigate (lvl2) is a big spell for you. Intimidate the oppoent, make them shaken. Then cast castigate the next round. They fail their save, they are pannicked. If they pass, they are feared for 1 round.
How many of those spells are AoE? Would it be worth it to get Dazzling Display to set up a two round AOE Save or Suck? Or Would a single target intimidate get the job done in most cases?
How many of those spells are AoE? Would it be worth it to get Dazzling Display to set up a two round AOE Save or Suck? Or Would a single target intimidate get the job done in most cases?I would focus on ranged combat, like people are reccomending.
1-5 PBS, PS, RS
7 Skill Focus Intimidate
9. Many Shot
11. Weapon Focus
13+ random feats that will helpThe big thing to look at for an Intimidation based Inquisitor is to look at the spells. Save or Sucks get better with a -2 to the enemies save, and the inquisitor gets a few good ones.
Castigate (lvl2) is a big spell for you. Intimidate the oppoent, make them shaken. Then cast castigate the next round. They fail their save, they are pannicked. If they pass, they are feared for 1 round.
I'm not that familiar with their list, but the ones I am aware of are mostly single target, until you get to level 5 spells and get mass castigate.
How many of those spells are AoE? Would it be worth it to get Dazzling Display to set up a two round AOE Save or Suck? Or Would a single target intimidate get the job done in most cases?I would focus on ranged combat, like people are reccomending.
1-5 PBS, PS, RS
7 Skill Focus Intimidate
9. Many Shot
11. Weapon Focus
13+ random feats that will helpThe big thing to look at for an Intimidation based Inquisitor is to look at the spells. Save or Sucks get better with a -2 to the enemies save, and the inquisitor gets a few good ones.
Castigate (lvl2) is a big spell for you. Intimidate the oppoent, make them shaken. Then cast castigate the next round. They fail their save, they are pannicked. If they pass, they are feared for 1 round.
Of course, you forget, they are still getting a -2 to lots of things. It doesn't just impact spells or single target actions; it impacts the entire party for a number of rounds.
Don't forget Precise Shot (and later Improved Precise Shot), unless you plan on going for a switch hitter build (which is a bit harder to do on an inquisitor than a ranger).
There's a new feat in UC just for switch hitters which gives a +4 to hit with the melee weapon if they hit with the ranged first and don't worry about PS...food for thought
Don't forget Precise Shot (and later Improved Precise Shot), unless you plan on going for a switch hitter build (which is a bit harder to do on an inquisitor than a ranger).There's a new feat in UC just for switch hitters which gives a +4 to hit with the melee weapon if they hit with the ranged first and don't worry about PS...food for thought
I don't see how that has anything to do with Precise Shot.. and access to Ultimate Combat is obviously determined by when it is added to the PRD.
I don't see how that has anything to do with Precise Shot.. and access to Ultimate Combat is obviously determined by when it is added to the PRD.Don't forget Precise Shot (and later Improved Precise Shot), unless you plan on going for a switch hitter build (which is a bit harder to do on an inquisitor than a ranger).There's a new feat in UC just for switch hitters which gives a +4 to hit with the melee weapon if they hit with the ranged first and don't worry about PS...food for thought
me not being clear...PS is only useful if you are staying back and firing into combat. For a switch-hitter build you prolly less inclined to be doing that and that feat would be better spent elsewhere.
The Heresy Domain is a solid choice IMO
I don't see how that has anything to do with Precise Shot.. and access to Ultimate Combat is obviously determined by when it is added to the PRD.Don't forget Precise Shot (and later Improved Precise Shot), unless you plan on going for a switch hitter build (which is a bit harder to do on an inquisitor than a ranger).There's a new feat in UC just for switch hitters which gives a +4 to hit with the melee weapon if they hit with the ranged first and don't worry about PS...food for thoughtme not being clear...PS is only useful if you are staying back and firing into combat. For a switch-hitter build you prolly less inclined to be doing that and that feat would be better spent elsewhere.
The Heresy Domain is a solid choice IMO
It was either Heresy or Conversion and I liked Heresy a little more.
Any opinions from anyone on Preacher or other archetypes?
You could also dip a couple of levels (Max 3) in Zen Archer. LN is a reachable alignment for a Pharasma Inquisitor. Using WIS to AC and CMD (1st), being able to flurry with your bow (1st), along with bonus feats (1st and 2nd), solid saves, low-level perfect strikes (1st) and WIS to attack (3rd).
That would allow you to focus on STR and WIS mainly. The Flurry replaces Rapid Shot, so you can concentrate your feat selection on damaging, such as Deadly aim and other stuff.
Any opinions from anyone on Preacher or other archetypes?
Preacher is totally and completely awesome, and is useful all the time, especially as compared to Solo Tactics, which is useful some of the time.
Walk it Off or whatever the new +saves Teamwork feat in UC is may be worth taking though...
