Hi All.
A while back, I had started a playing on EnWorld's "Living Pathfinder" forums with a level 1 wizard, with the intention of working towards Arcane Archer. Initially, I had planned to take 1 level of fighter/wizard the rest of the way, until I qualified for Eldritch Knight, then take a few levels of that, a few of AA, then EK the rest of the way. For a variety of reasons, I've decided to go with a more front-loaded, martial-oriented build. I realize there are some drawbacks to this approach, but it's what I'm going to do. Part of the impetus for this was that I felt the character called for ranger levels.
I'm about to take my second level, which means that I need to finalize my plans. Given my criteria (already have one level of wizard, want some levels of ranger), I feel I have two options in working towards AA: go six levels of ranger (I would choose the Spirit Ranger archetype), or take two levels of ranger (Guide archetype) and four of fighter (archer) (not sure what the order would be - probably 2 ranger/4 fighter). The former option gives me three lvl 1 ranger spells/day, 16 additional skill points, and possibly improved precise shot (if I decide to take it at lvl 6, which is likely), the latter option gives me an extra feat (with which I would either take Arcane Armor Training or Arcane Strike - probably the latter, as it fits the AA build concept and would make my own level of wizard valid earlier on) and would set me up to pick up Expert Archer for +1 attack & damage after my three levels of AA. I'm not sure which I prefer, which is why I'm asking for some input.
As an aside, I am a bit disappointed with AA - I've always loved it as a concept, but didn't really understand the crunch until after I set out on this path; for instance, I was really disappointed that enhance arrows doesn't stack with a bow's enhancement - I know there's some argument about this, but I'm pretty sure that's the case - which kind of renders the first level of AA useless. Even so, I'm still committed to the taking the class at this point, if for no other reason than I'd otherwise have to scrap my character on LPF, which I'm unwilling to do.
Think that's enough information to start with; any input will be hugely appreciated, as long as it takes my aforementioned preferences into account.
*Bump*
I know it's not the same build, but right now I'm having my own issues with a Sorcerer/Fighter/Dragon Disciple. Since I've been playing her from 1st level (I'm only third level right now), the path is very slow and agonizing. I can't yet do anything I really want to do with her.
I'd recommend not multiclassing into too many classes, otherwise you'll never be happy until mid to high levels when the build actually starts coming together. So, my advice would be 4 levels of Wizard, 6 of Ranger, and 10 Arcane Archer. Or, unless the imbue alignment and Arrow of Death abilities are important to you, only take 8 levels of Arcane Archer and 8 levels of Ranger to focus more on your martial prowess. And also, this is just a personal issue of mine, I'd pick the Ranger archetype that nixes their spellcasting. You already have Wizard spells, Ranger spells just seems like extra unnecessary bookkeeping.
Obviously, you'll have to sacrifice one or the other-martial prowess or spellcasting power. In my case, I chose to be more of a Fighter than Sorcerer. I've never been good at strategically casting spells anyway. I just wanted it as an option, and the Dragon Disciple seemed like a good idea (but this was before the Magus was released).
I hope this helps a little bit. =(
Eldritch Knight requires you to be able to cast 3rd level spells, which means you'd need to sink at least 5 levels of Wizard into it before you could qualify. Arcane Archer requires 3 feats and a BAB of 6. So the requirements of getting to either of those would be quite different.
Going for AA you would do Wizard 1/Fighter 6 (or Wizard 2/Fighter 5. Just make sure you get Weapon Training). Going for EK you would go Wizard 5/Fighter 1.
Honestly, EK isn't worth it at all. If you're going for an archery focus, then AA has everything you need, with full BAB progression and nearly full spellcasting progression. The only thing EK gives you is a couple bonus feats.
I honestly wouldn't take Ranger to qualify for AA. The biggest draw of Ranger is the bonus feats whose prereqs you get to ignore. But in order to qualify for AA, you have to take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot anyways, so you aren't really avoiding anything. And you'd likely have the Dex requirements anyways.
Submit - I think we're in the same boat. Ideally, I want the character to be an archer with some extra oomph stemming from their magical ability - right now, at level one, I'm just a wizard running around with a bow. I'm sort of playing the character as I see them becoming, but the mechanics don't currently back up my conception.
For me, I really see levels 4-6 of AA as being pretty dead - Seeker Arrow is meh, especially if I get Improved Precise Shot at Ranger level 6, distance is pretty worthless, and Phase Arrow is also kind of meh. I'm just not really a fan of these once or twice a day abilities. Burst is alright (although a longbow isn't built for crits), and Hail of Arrows could be conditionally useful. I would love to get the alignment enhancement at level 9, but that's a long way to go for that one ability. So we'll see. The advantage of just taking Ranger is that it gives me a class to go back to once I've gotten what I wanted from AA.
SP - while I understand what you're saying, my decision to go Ranger is primarily from the flavor perspective. As I said, I initially planned to go Wizard-heavy, but as I started to play the character I just felt the skill monkey/outdoorsy-type was a huge part of his persona, so Ranger just seems to fit from that perspective. I feel like going Fighter-heavy would just narrow his applicability, because of all the lost skills, etc - I like the idea of his ability to make knowledge checks being relatively on par with his ability to fell baddies. But your point is duly noted.
Thanks for your thoughts.
for instance, I was really disappointed that enhance arrows doesn't stack with a bow's enhancement - I know there's some argument about this, but I'm pretty sure that's the case - which kind of renders the first level of AA useless. Even so, I'm still committed to the...
The bonuses granted by a magic bow apply as normal to arrows that have been enhanced with this ability. Only the larger enhancement bonus applies. Duplicate abilities do not stack.
The first level is weak, but the others work and MORE then make up for it. However I've just played with AA from first to 16th level, and even with the first level being a bit weak it was if anything a bit OP. The first level does open up some crazy stuff like having a mundane bow as a back up for a his Brilliant Energy bow.
Honestly I think that a martial build is the way to go with a AA. I'd go with a Archer Archetype Fighter. I know that most builds go with the logic that the way to the be the most powerful is as many spell caster levels as possible. Most times this is true BUT for the AA your full attack is going to be so much more powerful then any spell you can cast it just isn't true.
The first level is weak, but the others work and MORE then make up for it. However I've just played with AA from first to 16th level, and even with the first level being a bit weak it was if anything a bit OP. The first level does open up some crazy stuff like having a mundane bow as a back up for a his Brilliant Energy bow.
Honestly I think that a martial build is the way to go with a AA. I'd go with a Archer Archetype Fighter. I know that most builds go with the logic that the way to the be the most powerful is as many spell caster levels as possible. Most times this is true BUT for the AA your full attack is going to be so much more powerful then any spell you can cast it just isn't true.
That's good to hear, b/c, as I've said, I'm going to be going martial-heavy myself. I'm curious - how many levels did you take in AA?
As for fighter archetypes, if I were to go that route, I would probably go weapon master - I like getting weapon training early, and as a whole, the abilities seem much more useful than the Archer's. This discussion still tempts me to go fighter (which could still happen, I suppose), but I'm likely to stick with Ranger. What you say is valid, though.
One last tiny piece of advice I forgot to mention...
If you're multiclassing, do it only as much as you need to until you can enter the prestige class. The sooner you start getting prestige levels, the sooner the build will feel like one character concept and not three happening simultaneously. I know this seems kind of obvious, but I don't want you to make the same mistake I did with my build. (Being a low level Sorcerer is just the worst.)
It seems like you have a good idea of what you're going for already. Only take as many levels of Wizard as are necessary. If you have a specific goal for total caster levels in mind, that helps. Mix it in between other levels as needed. Since I've never been a Ranger or an Arcane Archer, I can't get any more specific than that. I have heard that it can get to be a DPR machine by 8th or 10th level, though. I'm sure you'll have fun with the character. At least, I hope you do. =)
how many levels did you take in AA?
None. I played in a party with one from 1st to 16th level. He took ranger 5, wizard 2, AA 9. The new game I just started has AAs to be. And my old party back in 3.x had them. But the basic pattern holds - they can cast a spell that for us is fairly low level and may have some effect or use arrows for daring to oppose their will.
@ 10th level if you go into AA the fastest (5 levels in a full base attack class and 2 in wizard/sor/witch type) you'll have CL 4. Base Attack of +9 with who knows what collection of feats for damage with a bow with full attacks almost every round OR cast a 2nd level spell. Even if you go half and half (Fighter/Ranger/Whatever 4, Wizard 4, AA 2) you'll be casting tops third level spells tops. With a caster level of 5, 7 if traits pump it up. You could do some weird stuff with Magus or Bard or such but that's a mixed bag.
Except for fireball for large numbers of mooks just take out of combat long lasting buffs spells and run with it.