Ok, for those who don't know, the duskblade from 3.5 is essentially a combination melee/caster. They use INT to cast spells, but actually cast like sorcerers (limited spell selections but decent spells per day, and they cast spontaneously). Their main class feature though is that they can channel magic into a melee attack.
Arcane Channeling (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a duskblade can use a standard action to cast any touch spell she knows and deliver the spell through her weapon with a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the melee attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved.
At 13th level, she can cast any touch spell she knows as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target she hits in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.
Now, what I'm wondering is, does a ranged touch attack count in this instance? Specifically, I'm wondering about rays (which are quite prevalent in the duskblade spell list).
My first thought was no, because it specifies touch attacks. Also, disintegrate is on their spell list, meaning that at 17th level they can channel disintegrate into a full round attack, which means an additional 34d6 on each target (unless they pass their FORT save, in which case it is 5d6).
However, there are no 4th or 5th level touch spells on their list. Meaning that their highest level spells can't utilize their main class feature. Thoughts?
No.
Honestly that is what I'm thinking, but my friend tried to convince me that a ranged touch attack is still a touch attack. The argument was along the line of, since you are able to cast a ray into melee, you can cast a ray channeled through your weapon. This seemed way too broken to me though, and I had to get a second opinion.
RAW nope.
RAI nope
IMHO nope
WWJD? IDK
Well Jesus would cast disintegrate channeled through a +5 holy sword but that doesn't mean a regular PC can. I mean Jesus has got to be at least a demigod.
Look for a feat or class ability called "Hold Ray" or something similar. I remember there being a way to turn ranged touch spells into melee touches, which then would let them qualify. I don't remember the details, though.
Ranged touch attack = ranged attack that is against the target's touch AC
touch attack = melee attack against the target's touch AC
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Look for a feat or class ability called "Hold Ray" or something similar. I remember there being a way to turn ranged touch spells into melee touches, which then would let them qualify. I don't remember the details, though.
3.5s enlightened fist prestige class class ability from Complete Arcane IIRC.
Look for a feat or class ability called "Hold Ray" or something similar. I remember there being a way to turn ranged touch spells into melee touches, which then would let them qualify. I don't remember the details, though.3.5s enlightened fist prestige class class ability from Complete Arcane IIRC.
Wow. As written that would actually work. I wouldn't allow it in my games, but you could go up to 13th level duskblade for the full attack channeling, and then take 7 levels of arcane fist (assuming you take the feats for improved unarmed strike and stunning fist). You lose two levels of spellcasting ability but that's still enough to qualify for a a few uses of disintegrate per day and you get "hold ray."
Still, even though it works RAW, I can't imagine a single DM actually allowing it.
EDIT: Scratch that, the first DM I played with is exactly the kind of power gamer who would try to pull this and would probably even suggest that someone else do it. Only if they were already settled on a duskblade though because he would spend at least a couple of hours trying to convince them that they are better off as a druid or a wizard.
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hgsolo, you're talking about a 20th level duskblade / monk, a character with all sorts of weaknesses. (What's her AC? Awwww. And she can punch a whole lot of people, so long as she isn't using her effective weapon.) If she wants to go toe-to-toe with some CR 22 critter and throw around a few attacks that need to get through spell resistance and then offer a Fortitude save, I would certainly allow that.
hgsolo, you're talking about a 20th level duskblade / monk, a character with all sorts of weaknesses. (What's her AC? Awwww. And she can punch a whole lot of people, so long as she isn't using her effective weapon.) If she wants to go toe-to-toe with some CR 22 critter and throw around a few attacks that need to get through spell resistance and then offer a Fortitude save, I would certainly allow that.
Actually no, I'm saying that you have to be a duskblade 17/arcane fist 7. You don't have to be a monk to take arcane fist, you just need to waste two feats. I'm not even saying it is all that viable an option, because it also lowers the BAB. However, if you play it as written there is no reason you can't combine the hold ray with arcane channeling through a sword. As for AC, give a duskblade mithral fullplate.
Besides, my objection to allowing it is not even that it is broken, it is that going through all those hoops just to hit multiple targets with disintegrate in one casting is ridiculously munchkiny and it kinda defeats the point of the arcane fist class.
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According to the discussion thread on the GitP boards, the canonical "disintegrate you with my weapon" build would be Duskblade 13 / Enlightened Fist 7.
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Look for a feat or class ability called "Hold Ray" or something similar. I remember there being a way to turn ranged touch spells into melee touches, which then would let them qualify. I don't remember the details, though.3.5s enlightened fist prestige class class ability from Complete Arcane IIRC.Wow. As written that would actually work. I wouldn't allow it in my games, but you could go up to 13th level duskblade for the full attack channeling, and then take 7 levels of arcane fist (assuming you take the feats for improved unarmed strike and stunning fist). You lose two levels of spellcasting ability but that's still enough to qualify for a a few uses of disintegrate per day and you get "hold ray."
Still, even though it works RAW, I can't imagine a single DM actually allowing it.
EDIT: Scratch that, the first DM I played with is exactly the kind of power gamer who would try to pull this and would probably even suggest that someone else do it. Only if they were already settled on a duskblade though because he would spend at least a couple of hours trying to convince them that they are better off as a druid or a wizard.
my old DM had a end game boss as a 20th level gestalted Duskblade and Monk, and let him take hold ray as a feat.
A 3.5 TWF flurry of blows, hasted and adding a disintegrate to every attack was brutal
Look for a feat or class ability called "Hold Ray" or something similar. I remember there being a way to turn ranged touch spells into melee touches, which then would let them qualify. I don't remember the details, though.3.5s enlightened fist prestige class class ability from Complete Arcane IIRC.Wow. As written that would actually work. I wouldn't allow it in my games, but you could go up to 13th level duskblade for the full attack channeling, and then take 7 levels of arcane fist (assuming you take the feats for improved unarmed strike and stunning fist). You lose two levels of spellcasting ability but that's still enough to qualify for a a few uses of disintegrate per day and you get "hold ray."
Still, even though it works RAW, I can't imagine a single DM actually allowing it.
EDIT: Scratch that, the first DM I played with is exactly the kind of power gamer who would try to pull this and would probably even suggest that someone else do it. Only if they were already settled on a duskblade though because he would spend at least a couple of hours trying to convince them that they are better off as a druid or a wizard.
my old DM had a end game boss as a 20th level gestalted Duskblade and Monk, and let him take hold ray as a feat.
A 3.5 TWF flurry of blows, hasted and adding a disintegrate to every attack was brutal
Your old DM was horribly unfair then because hold ray is worth way more than a feat. Not to mention a gestalt character is pretty messed up unless you were given the option to do so yourselves.