Sorry, but ... one last summoner question. Weapon training evolution vs. weapon proficiency feat?

[rob vaughn]

I know you're all sick of questions about this class. I've looked high and low for the answers, I promise. I'm just getting into PFS, and don't want to make a bad first impression by trying to get around the rules.

It seems like people are assuming that you can just use a biped eidolon's feat to give it exotic weapon proficiency in some horrid weapon, and ignore the weapon training evolution.

My feeling is that you could do that by the RAW, but the spirit of the rules (RAI?) suggests that the designers wanted you to have to spend 2-4 points of evolution to get a weapon in your eidolon's hands.

This is backed up by the eidolon models (from Ultimate Magic, I think). The angel, bodyguard, centaur, and drider all spent 4 evolution points on weapon training to get to martial; if they could've just spent 1 feat on their preferred martial weapon or, even better, an exotic weapon, that seems like it would have been more efficient.

Has there been a ruling one way or the other?

Thanks!

[Momar]

rob vaughn wrote:

Question about eidolon weapon use

There's no reason that taking the feat wouldn't work, especially since the eidolon evolution just gives you the simple weapon proficiency feat.

[Bobson]

If you spend a feat, it's permanent. If you ever reshape your eidolon to not have arms, or to focus in something else, you're still stuck with the feat. In addition, you have to use only that specific weapon. Conversely, with the evolution, you can drop it whenever you want to, and the eidolon can use most hand-me-downs from the fighters, or whatever good but otherwise useless weapon you happen to come across.

There's times that one will be better than the other - for optimization purposes, it's almost always better to spend the feat, and if you want to specialize in an exotic weapon you have to spend the feat anyway. But for an ongoing campaign, the more flexible option is probably the better one.

[sphar]

What Bobson said:Using evolution points is more flexible,but its worth the feat if you're using an exotic weapon.

Also,@Bobson:PFS doesn't let you give items away(hence he can't use the fighters items D:).

[Cory Stafford 29]

For PFS, it's probably better to go with the feat, since you can buy your own gear to make sure your eidolon has the proper weapon. I'd recommend falcata for one-handed or elven curve blade for two-handed. It's legal and saves you 4 evolution points, which is significant. It's what I plan on doing with my elf summoner I am debuting at GenCon.

[Starbuck_II]

Cory Stafford 29 wrote:

For PFS, it's probably better to go with the feat, since you can buy your own gear to make sure your eidolon has the proper weapon. I'd recommend falcata for one-handed or elven curve blade for two-handed. It's legal and saves you 4 evolution points, which is significant. It's what I plan on doing with my elf summoner I am debuting at GenCon.

Do you recommend Extra Trait: for that trait that gives proficiency with a masterwork weapon ( and +1 trait to hit)/plus you get another trait?

Or the feat Weappon Proficiency?

[Omelite]

Starbuck_II wrote:

Cory Stafford 29 wrote:

For PFS, it's probably better to go with the feat, since you can buy your own gear to make sure your eidolon has the proper weapon. I'd recommend falcata for one-handed or elven curve blade for two-handed. It's legal and saves you 4 evolution points, which is significant. It's what I plan on doing with my elf summoner I am debuting at GenCon.

Do you recommend Extra Trait: for that trait that gives proficiency with a masterwork weapon ( and +1 trait to hit)/plus you get another trait?

Or the feat Weappon Proficiency?

Hmm, I never thought about getting Extra Traits and giving it Heirloom weapon.

It's probably a good choice, since weapons are rarely lost or destroyed in PFS, and you essentially get another half-feat on top of it.

Edit: Actually as far as I remember having proficiency from Heirloom weapon only will not allow you to take weapon focus and other such feats that require proficiency in a specific type of weapon.

[Bobson]

Omelite wrote:

Edit: Actually as far as I remember having proficiency from Heirloom weapon only will not allow you to take weapon focus and other such feats that require proficiency in a specific type of weapon.

I thought it was that you could take them, but they only applied to that specific weapon until you gained normal proficiency with the weapon type. So if you have a heirloom scimitar, you could take Weapon Focus (scimitar), but would only get the bonus with your heirloom one, not any others you picked up and had the non-proficiency penalty with. If you later became proficient with all scimitars, you would then apply the WF bonus.

But I could be wrong.

[Omelite]

Bobson wrote:

Omelite wrote:

Edit: Actually as far as I remember having proficiency from Heirloom weapon only will not allow you to take weapon focus and other such feats that require proficiency in a specific type of weapon.

I thought it was that you could take them, but they only applied to that specific weapon until you gained normal proficiency with the weapon type. So if you have a heirloom scimitar, you could take Weapon Focus (scimitar), but would only get the bonus with your heirloom one, not any others you picked up and had the non-proficiency penalty with. If you later became proficient with all scimitars, you would then apply the WF bonus.

But I could be wrong.

Yeah, I think there was some debate as to which of those two interpretations is correct, but actually I think the crowd who says you can get weapon focus with heirloom weapon say that you DON'T get the bonus with other scimitars when you gain proficiency.

Essentially, when you take weapon focus and it tells you to select a weapon you're proficient with, you're not allowed to choose scimitar; it has to be "that one scimitar uncle billy gave me," because you're not proficient with plain old scimitars. Thus, the weapon focus bonus only applies to that one specific weapon because it's what you selected with weapon focus.

Still, the flavor text for weapon focus says you have to choose a *type* of weapon. Personally, I think the fact that it says "choose one type of weapon" makes it clear enough that the selection has to be a type of weapon, and thus you need proficiency with all weapons of that type.

[rob vaughn]

Bobson wrote:

If you spend a feat, it's permanent. If you ever reshape your eidolon to not have arms, or to focus in something else, you're still stuck with the feat. In addition, you have to use only that specific weapon. Conversely, with the evolution, you can drop it whenever you want to, and the eidolon can use most hand-me-downs from the fighters, or whatever good but otherwise useless weapon you happen to come across.

There's times that one will be better than the other - for optimization purposes, it's almost always better to spend the feat, and if you want to specialize in an exotic weapon you have to spend the feat anyway. But for an ongoing campaign, the more flexible option is probably the better one.

Thanks for the replies, folks. Bobson makes a very good point about the pros and cons; the feat being static vs. the evolution being variable is something I hadn't noticed. Seems almost arbitrary, but whatever ;).

I'm going to go exotic weapon prof or martial weapon prof to match the character's flavor (Shaonti), maybe taking totem spear. And heirloom as a trait, so the summoner can use it when the eidolon isn't around.

[waiph]

you should be able to pick scimitar, but you have to meet the Pre-recs to use a feat, if you ever stop meeting the recs, then you can't use the feat.

exe. Dex belt lets you take TWF, you loose the belt, you can't twf anymore.

Proficient with Billy's Scimitar, so you take weapon focus. It works
You pick up Random-ass Scimitar, you aren't proficient, you don't meet the pre-rec for weapon focus, you don't get the bonus.
pull out Billy's Scimitar again, and you're golden.

i think