What point buy for the NPC's?
Presenting The Black Knight (made using an elite array, 15,14,13,12,10,8). I have softballed his offence somewhat- giving him Spirited Charge makes him a potential one hit PC killer (3d8+9 on a lance charge with that feat= 22 or so average damage).
Notes-
1. Mount's saves and AC are one point higher than listed due to Roughrider bonuses.
2. Mount's speed should be its original 50 thanks to a Roughrider bonus.
3. Due to Mounted Shield feat, Shadow's AC is 5 points higher than listed (AC25 including dodge bonus mentioned in 1.)
4. The ride check to negate a hit on Shadow is made at a +5 bonus from Mounted Shield, assuming they hit AC25 in the first place.
5. Mount is a heavy horse with the Endurance feat swapped out for Toughness.
Essentially, he is extremely strong defensively (except saving throws), able to deal good single hit damage with a lance charge (2d8+6) or Trample foes with his mount. If forced to full attack, he and the mount can make four attacks between them, but mounted builds are better not comitting to a standard melee slog, much better to Ride-By-Attack. Hes equipped with healing potions and a potion of protection from good in case he expects pesky do-gooders. Swapping his strength and dex is probably a good idea in hindsight, as he can't get the full +3 with a tower shield equipped.
THE BLACK KNIGHT CR 2
Male Human (Taldan) Fighter (Roughrider) 3
LE Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +0
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DEFENSE
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AC 23, touch 12, flat-footed 21. . (+6 armor, +5 shield, +2 Dex)
hp 24 (3d10+3)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +1
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft.
Melee Masterwork Lance +4 (1d8+3/20/x3) and
. . Masterwork Longsword +4 (1d8+2/19-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +3 (1d3+2/20/x2)
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STATISTICS
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Str 15, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Mounted Combat, Mounted Shield, Ride-by Attack, Shield Focus, Trample
Skills Acrobatics -11, Climb -12, Escape Artist -11, Fly -11, Handle Animal +7, Intimidate +7, Ride +9, Stealth -11, Swim -12
Languages Common
SQ Armored Charger (Ex), Steadfast Mount +1 (Ex)
Combat Gear Breastplate, Masterwork Lance, Masterwork Longsword, Tower Shield; Other Gear Potion of Cure Light Wounds (4), Potion of Protection From Good
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Potion of Cure Light Wounds - 0/4
Potion of Protection From Good - 0/1
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Armored Charger (Ex) Mount is not slowed for a medium load or barding.
Mounted Combat Once per round you can attempt to negate a hit to your mount in combat.
Mounted Shield Add your Shield (inc Shield Focus) bonus to your mount's AC and Mounted Combat checks.
Ride-by Attack You can move - attack - move when charging mounted.
Shield Focus +1 Shield AC
Steadfast Mount +1 (Ex) Mount gains +1 to AC and saves while you are adjacent or mounted.
Trample Your target may not try to avoid your mounted overruns.
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SHADOW CR 2
Male Horse, Heavy
NN Large Animal
Init +4; Senses Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +8
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DEFENSE
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AC 19, touch 12, flat-footed 16. . (+5 armor, +3 Dex, -1 size, +2 natural)
hp 22 (2d8+13)
Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +3
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OFFENSE
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Spd 35 ft.
Melee Bite (Horse, Heavy) +5 (1d4+5/20/x2) and
. . Gauntlet (from Armor) +5 (1d4+5/20/x2) and
. . Hooves x2 (Horse, Heavy) +0 x2 (1d6+2/20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +5 (1d4+5/20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
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STATISTICS
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Str 20, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 16, Cha 10
Base Atk +1; CMB +7; CMD 20 (24 vs. Trip)
Feats Run, Toughness +3
Tricks Attack [Trick], Combat Riding [Trick], Come [Trick], Defend [Trick], Down [Trick], Guard [Trick], Heel [Trick]
Skills Acrobatics +0, Climb +1, Escape Artist +0, Fly -2, Perception +8, Ride +0, Stealth -4, Swim +1
Languages
SQ Combat Riding [Trick]
Combat Gear Scale Mail;
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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. . -none-
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Run You run faster than normal.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
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The Cavalier can be built similarly, with the only real differences coming from his class features. The Cavalier is more explicitly designed for mounted combat, though the advantages of Cavalier over rough rider haven't come into play by 3rd level, so it's really personal choice. At this point, the only major difference in mechanic is the Cavalier's challenge, which lets him put some serious hurt on his target.
If you go Cavalier, you may want to choose his order based on personality. It's not a huge difference at low levels, although if you plan on bringing this character back at mid levels, Order of the Sword synergizes absurdly well with already mounted-focused Cavalier.
The Cavalier can be built similarly, with the only real differences coming from his class features. The Cavalier is more explicitly designed for mounted combat, though the advantages of Cavalier over rough rider haven't come into play by 3rd level, so it's really personal choice. At this point, the only major difference in mechanic is the Cavalier's challenge, which lets him put some serious hurt on his target.
If you go Cavalier, you may want to choose his order based on personality. It's not a huge difference at low levels, although if you plan on bringing this character back at mid levels, Order of the Sword synergizes absurdly well with already mounted-focused Cavalier.
I'm aware but he said 'Fighter'- I assumed that meant Fighter class rather than a 'fighter-type' but if i had assumed the other way i'd have made a Cavalier.
With that said, the fighter's bonus feats help a lot in these early levels, and the loss of the special mount isn't so big at this level.
Depending on the players' motivations for not liking being mounted, which you haven't explained much, you do realize they may become more resentful of horses if a) they get their asses kicked by a mounted combatant, or 2) a mounted NPC outshines them?
It may not be logical, but gamers are human and thus emotional beings, and sometimes being shown up by the thing you are not fond of just makes you want to avoid it MORE.
I think there is a legitimate concern if the PCs are mistreating their mounts in character, but if they don't want to make a mounted combat build, that's their prerogative as players. Yes, mounted combat builds are cool, but if they're just not that into them, I don't understand what the issue is.
NOW, if it's a matter of someone saying, "Look, I'd like to use my horse in combat, but I just don't understand how it works"--THAT, I can see the concern. And that calls for sitting down with the player(s) and going over the mounted combat rules and showing them, non-confrontationally, what potential those kinds of builds have. Ideally in a demo session that is not bound into the actual campaign.
Finally, speaking as a GM who once had to deal with not one but TWO PCs with utterly cheesed out mounted combat builds: Be careful what you wish for.
I realize I may not be fully understanding the situation here, and I apologize if I am off the mark. If you have more information to provide, great. Otherwise, good luck.
I'm aware but he said 'Fighter'- I assumed that meant Fighter class rather than a 'fighter-type' but if i had assumed the other way i'd have made a Cavalier.With that said, the fighter's bonus feats help a lot in these early levels, and the loss of the special mount isn't so big at this level.
A misunderstanding - my post wasn't attacking your build in any way, just illuminating options for the benefit of the OP. I'd agree that at this low level, the Cavalier's benefits aren't terribly important, although they merit consideration if he decides to make this a recurring NPC.
Bonus feats are a perfectly valid consideration. A low level Cavalier may not have enough feats to get spirited charge, although his damage output is almost comparable when he uses his challenge.
I'm aware but he said 'Fighter'- I assumed that meant Fighter class rather than a 'fighter-type' but if i had assumed the other way i'd have made a Cavalier.With that said, the fighter's bonus feats help a lot in these early levels, and the loss of the special mount isn't so big at this level.
A misunderstanding - my post wasn't attacking your build in any way, just illuminating options for the benefit of the OP. I'd agree that at this low level, the Cavalier's benefits aren't terribly important, although they merit consideration if he decides to make this a recurring NPC.
Bonus feats are a perfectly valid consideration. A low level Cavalier may not have enough feats to get ride-by-attack, although his damage output is almost comparable when he uses his challenge.
Fair enough. Yeah the big options at this level (IMO) are Roughrider, Mounted Fury (Barbarian) and Cavalier.
Basically, the issue is that they're completely ignoring the mounted combat rules and the feats and options associated with them. It's like they've made a group decision that horses aren't interesting except /maybe/ as a way to get around.
Have you discussed this with them, and they told you this specifically, or are you making an assumption, simply because they aren't using the horses for anything other than transport?
Mounted combat rules can be confusing. They may be intimidated by them. Having those rules presented to them in an antagonistic way could further their intimidation, that's all I'm trying to get at.
Also, frankly, I want to explore and learn more about the mounted combat rules myself!
That's great! But maybe you can invite your players to discuss the issue and make sure you're all on the same page? Even say, "Look, I designed a guy who you'll encounter in an upcoming session, so you can see what you can do with this." So they don't feel attacked for their preferences, but helped. I'm probably overdoing it on my level of concern, but I am trying to help you find a way to achieve what you want--and not the opposite. :)
Can the horse attack while doing a Ride-By? I suppose it could, but would suffer an AoO? Which the BK could use Mounted Combat to try to avoid?
The horse not only CAN make an attack while doing a ride-by (or spirited charge for that matter) but, as written, it MUST.
The way the mounted rules are written, you essentially have rider and mount both acting with their own allotted actions, simply at the same time. When you make a mounted charge (ride-by, spirited, or otherwise), it is your mount's full-round action to charge, and the rider happily comes along and gets the benefits/penalties if he makes a melee attack as well. The mount MUST attack because the mount is using the charge action, while the rider MAY attack if he wants, and get the benefits of a charge if he does (but gets the penalty even if he doesn't).
The rules don't say who attacks first, but I think it's reasonable to assume that the rider can make an attack with a lance before the mount attacks because the lance has more reach.
Since a charge attack doesn't provoke an AOO, your mount does not provoke one during this charge (unless, of course, its movement causes it to provoke AOOs from other combatants).
If you're still confused after reading the mounted rules (and you probably will be), take a look at this thread for a good summary on mounted rules.
For the Annoying Cavalier, maybe have the PCs fight a big bad monster, something that really challenges them. Once they finally defeat it, or when it is down to just 1 more hit, have a second one show up, followed by Ann O. Ying, and have her fight the second on by herself, defeating it easily.
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If your Kingmaker group is anything like mine they are going to be looking for someone to hire, especially once they defeat the BBEG at the end of the first book.
Instead of trouncing them with a a big bad, have them temporarily gain the services of a Mounted Fighter (I prefer Cavalier) and use him as a demonstration of how effective mounted combat is.
This way not only do they get to see how potent it is, you (as the DM) have an in character opportunity to explain how it works as well as a resource to train any interested players in the related skills & feats.
On the flip side if they still aren't interested after that and continue to mistreat their mounts then you have a built in reason why a Big Bad cavalier decides to attack them. They earned it.
If you RP it right you can use him as a re-occurring adversary the players will quickly learn to hate.
I prefer cavaliers for this since regular mounts don't improve and past 3-4th level they are easily killed in a single attack, Cavalier (and Ranger) mounts as animal companions do and that can make all the difference to interest your PC's in these kind of fights.