Thought it might be interesting to see if there's a certain combo of spells that can cover "any" situation.
You can either post your own "perfect" list of memorized spells or you can post a situation of an appropriate CR that will "beat" someone elses memorized list.
the goal is to come up with a list that can't be beaten. and by beaten I mean the wizard makes no meaningful contribution to the fight.
now 15minute workday is not in effect, so post 2 appropriate CR challenges to beat a given list. remember wizard dosent have to contribute every round of a fight he just has to be able to make a significant impact on the encounter.
metamagic is allowed
4 player party, classic Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Wizard
I figure 7th level is a decent snapshot, Wizard has 18INT
spells you can memorize
lv0 = 4
lv1 = 5
lv2 = 4
lv3 = 3
lv2 = 2
To kick it off here's mine, post either 2 challenges to beat it or post your own list.
lv0 = light, ghost sound, mage hand, prestidigitation
lv1 = Grease, Feather Fall, Detect Secret Doors, Silent Image, Floating Disk
lv2 = Glitterdust, Summon Swarm, Rope Trick, Knock
lv3 = Fireball, Haste, Stinking Cloud
lv4 = Summon Monster IV, Ice Wall
No doubt people will disagree on what can be considered a meaningful contribution so keep it friendly ;)
the goal is to come up with a list that can't be beaten. and by beaten I mean the wizard makes no meaningful contribution to the fight.now 15minute workday is not in effect, so post 2 appropriate CR challenges to beat a given list. remember wizard dosent have to contribute every round of a fight he just has to be able to make a significant impact on the encounter.
metamagic is allowed
4 player party, classic Fighter, Rogue, Cleric and Wizard
I'm assuming you're looking for something a little more interesting than just a single enemy that is perfect at handling those specific spells, since you listed 4 party members. The problem is there isn't enough information to go on. For example, what do the other party members actually do in and out of combat? The sorts of challenges that will make your example spell list ineffectual will be very different depending on what your teammates can do. For example, haste wouldn't be as useful in a party with a Ride-by-attacking fighter, Buffing/Healing cleric, and a rogue that likes to sneak his way around the battle field performing minor debilitating actions (such as cutting the rope on a chandelier to make it fall on an ogre).
Another important piece of information is the alignment of your wizard. His alignment will change what sorts of creatures he can summon with his Summon Monster IV he has memorized.
Until I have more information the best encounter I can think of for making you wizard truly work at being effective would be a pair of huge sized fire elementals. They would ignite your grease spells, and be immune to your fireballs. They have good enoughsaving throws to make the saves versus the swarms and are fast enough to avoid them entirely. They are immune to Stinking Cloud. Their Burn ability causes ongoing damage, which will force the caster to make concentration checks to cast at all and which takes a full-round action to attempt another saving throw. However, Glitterdust and Wall of Ice are still viable options.
Well if we are looking for a "perfect" set of spells then technically the list needs to work regardless of the external variables. A bit of intuitive fudging is needed. As for party members perhaps I should have instead said tank, dpr, heal and controller(wiz). at summon monster 4 and below the difference between alignment effecting the summons are negligible.
Well if we are looking for a "perfect" set of spells then technically the list needs to work regardless of the external variables. A bit of intuitive fudging is needed. As for party members perhaps I should have instead said tank, dpr, heal and controller(wiz). at summon monster 4 and below the difference between alignment effecting the summons are negligible.
If the spell selection remains perfect regardless of variables than why include a party at all? If the rest of the parties actions are just a variable that have no real meaning on whether or not you will ever fail to overcome a challenge then they have no real input and have become a pointless inclusion. For that reason I would not wish to have such a spell list.
I figure 7th level is a decent snapshot, Wizard has 18INT
I feel that INT score is a bit low for a 7th level wizard. Even building a "well-rounded" character off of the elite array, a wizard starts with a 15, which is more than likely bumped to to a 17, which is 18, yes, after level 4. However, average wealth by level assumes that a character has somewhere in the neighborhood of 23,500 GP, more than enough to purchase or create a headband of INT +4. While WBL will change based on the group, and the game, and all that jazz, even conservatively thinking, building off the elite array a wizard should have at least a headband of INT +2 by level 7, to bring his INT to a modest 20. It will likely be even higher than this if using a pointbuy or alternative rolling method; possibly even starting with a 17 or 18, which would get bumped to 18 or 19, respectively, along with at least a headband of INT +2 for a 20 or a 21, possibly even a +4 for a 22 or 23. The higher INT that we are likely to see I think would give a more accurate scope of spells, since enemies are more likely to fail saving throws.
now 15minute workday is not in effect, so post 2 appropriate CR challenges to beat a given list. remember wizard dosent have to contribute every round of a fight he just has to be able to make a significant impact on the encounter.
Are you only looking for combat challenges to pit the spell lists against? What about social encounters, evironmental hazards, and traps?
Party was included because the wiz will be in a group as any group will invariable have at least the tank dpr and healing roles filled. There are some things a wizard can't do , and any spell list assumes these other roles are at least partially filled.
I said challenges instead of combat because pf is an rpg, so yes non commbat is okay too.
Here's what I would do:
v0 = dancing lights, ghost sound, detect magic, read magic
lv1 = Grease, Feather Fall, Detect Secret Doors, Silent Image, Magic Missile
lv2 = Glitterdust, Extended Mage Armor, Web, Knock
lv3 = Fireball, Haste, Stinking Cloud
lv4 = Summon Monster IV, Wall of Fire
With a stat boosting item and 1 extra spell each:
1 = +Disguise Self
2 = +Mirror Image
3 = +Slow
4 = +Black Tentacles
Party was included because the wiz will be in a group as any group will invariable have at least the tank dpr and healing roles filled. There are some things a wizard can't do , and any spell list assumes these other roles are at least partially filled.
I said challenges instead of combat because pf is an rpg, so yes non commbat is okay too.
You're flip flopping now. This is the exact opposite of...
Well if we are looking for a "perfect" set of spells then technically the list needs to work regardless of the external variables.
On top of that, when asked what the other party members were doing, one guy was healing (fine), one guys was controlling the battlefield (also fine), one guy is a "TANK" which, presumably means he grapples, trips, disarms, and bull-rushes enemies to prevent them from hurting his friends since he has absolutely no other way to accomplish that, which means he is a controller (Tanks only exist in video games). And the last guy does 'damage' whatever that means. I was going to take up this challenge but your being very vague and I don't even know where to begin. Either say what his friends do or get rid of his friends.
Party was included because the wiz will be in a group as any group will invariable have at least the tank dpr and healing roles filled. There are some things a wizard can't do , and any spell list assumes these other roles are at least partially filled.
I said challenges instead of combat because pf is an rpg, so yes non commbat is okay too.
You're flip flopping now. This is the exact opposite of...
Well if we are looking for a "perfect" set of spells then technically the list needs to work regardless of the external variables.On top of that, when asked what the other party members were doing, one guy was healing (fine), one guys was controlling the battlefield (also fine), one guy is a "TANK" which, presumably means he grapples, trips, disarms, and bull-rushes enemies to prevent them from hurting his friends since he has absolutely no other way to accomplish that, which means he is a controller (Tanks only exist in video games). And the last guy does 'damage' whatever that means. I was going to take up this challenge but your being very vague and I don't even know where to begin. Either say what his friends do or get rid of his friends.
Probably too free form for your liking, I can't offer you a satisfactory response to what your asking for. Its Intuitive fudging ;)
If your the kind of person who needs as many variables as possible locked down before you can throw out some ideas, then that's cool.
If you like feel free to post your own circumstantial conditions on your suggestions if you feel its necessary. with a group without a group, whatever you want.
Here's what I would do:
v0 = dancing lights, ghost sound, detect magic, read magic
lv1 = Grease, Feather Fall, Detect Secret Doors, Silent Image, Magic Missile
lv2 = Glitterdust, Extended Mage Armor, Web, Knock
lv3 = Fireball, Haste, Stinking Cloud
lv4 = Summon Monster IV, Wall of FireWith a stat boosting item and 1 extra spell each:
1 = +Disguise Self
2 = +Mirror Image
3 = +Slow
4 = +Black Tentacles
the number on my list already include bonus spells for 18INT
a +4 INT headband would give you an extra 1st and 2nd level spell
But otherwise I agree on those 4 spells all quite strong as have a variety of applications.
I was trying to work in a charm person as well since it can be a very handy spell as well
Here's what I would do:
v0 = dancing lights, ghost sound, detect magic, read magic
lv1 = Grease, Feather Fall, Detect Secret Doors, Silent Image, Magic Missile
lv2 = Glitterdust, Extended Mage Armor, Web, Knock
lv3 = Fireball, Haste, Stinking Cloud
lv4 = Summon Monster IV, Wall of FireWith a stat boosting item and 1 extra spell each:
1 = +Disguise Self
2 = +Mirror Image
3 = +Slow
4 = +Black Tentaclesthe number on my list already include bonus spells for 18INT
a +4 INT headband would give you an extra 1st and 2nd level spell
But otherwise I agree on those 4 spells all quite strong as have a variety of applications.
I was trying to work in a charm person as well since it can be a very handy spell as well
Oh ok, I didn't look it up. Charm Person might be a good sub for Detect Secret Doors (Scribe a scroll of that... or tell the party thief to perceive :P).
Here's what I would do:
v0 = dancing lights, ghost sound, detect magic, read magic
lv1 = Grease, Feather Fall, Detect Secret Doors, Silent Image, Magic Missile
lv2 = Glitterdust, Extended Mage Armor, Web, Knock
lv3 = Fireball, Haste, Stinking Cloud
lv4 = Summon Monster IV, Wall of FireWith a stat boosting item and 1 extra spell each:
1 = +Disguise Self
2 = +Mirror Image
3 = +Slow
4 = +Black Tentaclesthe number on my list already include bonus spells for 18INT
a +4 INT headband would give you an extra 1st and 2nd level spell
But otherwise I agree on those 4 spells all quite strong as have a variety of applications.
I was trying to work in a charm person as well since it can be a very handy spell as well
Oh ok, I didn't look it up. Charm Person might be a good sub for Detect Secret Doors (Scribe a scroll of that... or tell the party thief to perceive :P).
I like detect sercet doors over searching every room for them because its got a large range and saves alot of time searching every room.