If a druid has animal companion trained to attack, but fails his handle animal check for the companion to attack, will the companion, or can it, defend itself and attack anyway?
It can defend itself, however most animals would prefer to not fight so it would probably avoid until cornered. Just because the druid was attacked doesn't mean the animal would attack that opponent. If the animal was attacked directly for some reason I could see it nipping back at the attacker and then trying to get away.
If a druid has animal companion trained to attack, but fails his handle animal check for the companion to attack, will the companion, or can it, defend itself and attack anyway?
It depends on the animal, but anything with a herd or pack instinct probably doesn't need to be told to attack. If your companion is a wolf and you attack something, barring other instructions, it will probably join you.
They actually need to be taught the Attack trick twice to attack unnatural opponents.attack can be used to point out a foe to attack, or have your pet attack someone that isnt attacking you.
also most animals wont attack "unnatural" things to them. you need attack to get them to attack undead, elementals, and possibly a few other things
They will attack them without having attack twice... you just need to use the "Push" DC. With attack learned twice you do not need to push them to force the attack.
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I'd definitely recommend reading the Handle animal rules in full, very few people seem to want to do that but it's useful for understanding what an animal companion is supposed to do. If the companion hasn't been trained to attack the type of creature your fighting it might choose flight over fight if things look bad. If it is trained to attack the thing it's fighting then it will likely defend itself.
It's all about what kind of trick an animal companion might be taught by the druid. It's not an extension of the druid's will, it's a creature but Handle Animal is a robust skill that is useful to have. It's even good for non-druids! :D
Attack: The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks.
Come: The animal comes to you, even if it normally would not do so.
Defend: The animal defends you (or is ready to defend you if no threat is present), even without any command being given. Alternatively, you can command the animal to defend another specific character.
Down: The animal breaks off from combat or otherwise backs down. An animal that doesn't know this trick continues to fight until it must flee (due to injury, a fear effect, or the like) or its opponent is defeated.
Fetch: The animal goes and gets something. If you do not point out a specific item, the animal fetches a random object.
Guard: The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching.
Heel: The animal follows you closely, even to places where it normally wouldn't go.
Perform: The animal performs a variety of simple tricks, such as sitting up, rolling over, roaring or barking, and so on.
Seek: The animal moves into an area and looks around for anything that is obviously alive or animate.
Stay: The animal stays in place, waiting for you to return. It does not challenge other creatures that come by, though it still defends itself if it needs to.
Track: The animal tracks the scent presented to it. (This requires the animal to have the scent ability.)
Work: The animal pulls or pushes a medium or heavy load.
The Defend trick is usually a very good trick for one to know as that will effectively make it usually engage in combat to protect it's druid. In the case you've got, if the druid was being attacked and the animal companion new Defend, then there wouldn't need to be any reason to tell it to attack, it'd go after whatever was attempting to harm it's druid friend on its own. If it was personally being attacked by say an angry earth elemental and it hadn't been trained to fight outsiders, then it'd likely flee.
A raptor will attack a bugbear without needing to be pushed so long as it has been trained with the Attack Trick and the command has been given. It'd likely defend itself at least until it was very injured.
If something directly attacked the animal companion, it would either run or defend itself tooth and nail. I'd say if it has the appropriate attack trick, it automatically defends itself, no roll needed.
The roll is more intended for the druid choosing a target for the pet, not for superceeding the pet's logical response.
Our group has never used handle animal, really. We put ranks into it, and occasionally it matters what tricks we teach our animals, but generally - and I've been on both sides of the screen in this - animal companions ARE an extension of the druid's will.
But that's just how we role play them, and it's not even a house "rule." We just don't do all that mess; there's never been an official "this is how we are going to handle it" statement. <<; If the druid is attacking something, the companion generally follows suit. If something attacks the companion, it hits back, only very occasionally fleeing from some perceived greater threat. (That said, we also tend to put their first ability point into Int so that they go from 2 to 3 and have greater than animal intelligence. If I had ever gotten to 8 or more, I'd have put all of their points into Int.)
For immersion, it makes more sense to me for an animal whose lifestyle is constant danger and challenge to accept "fight" as the default response to "fight or flight" especially when it's master is in danger, assuming the master treats the animal well. Mostly for druids, but I might argue that for any player with a pet - a fighter with a well trained pitbull that he dotes on regularly? I'd say the thing tackles perceived threats on sight.
This would IMHO come down to a matter of DM action as in as a DM if the party were to attack the same type of animal what would you have its response be. For instance if everytime they attack a wolf it attacks back then you would reason the druids would do the same.
If a druid has animal companion trained to attack, but fails his handle animal check for the companion to attack, will the companion, or can it, defend itself and attack anyway?
If the druid has an animal companion trained to attack and fails the check, why doesn't he just try again? With the "Link (Ex)" ability of an animal companion, handling it is a free action.
Our group has never used handle animal, really. We put ranks into it, and occasionally it matters what tricks we teach our animals, but generally - and I've been on both sides of the screen in this - animal companions ARE an extension of the druid's will.
But that's just how we role play them, and it's not even a house "rule." We just don't do all that mess; there's never been an official "this is how we are going to handle it" statement. <<; If the druid is attacking something, the companion generally follows suit. If something attacks the companion, it hits back, only very occasionally fleeing from some perceived greater threat. (That said, we also tend to put their first ability point into Int so that they go from 2 to 3 and have greater than animal intelligence. If I had ever gotten to 8 or more, I'd have put all of their points into Int.)
For immersion, it makes more sense to me for an animal whose lifestyle is constant danger and challenge to accept "fight" as the default response to "fight or flight" especially when it's master is in danger, assuming the master treats the animal well. Mostly for druids, but I might argue that for any player with a pet - a fighter with a well trained pitbull that he dotes on regularly? I'd say the thing tackles perceived threats on sight.
And if the character in question puts points into the ability, it is not an issue, for the investment the DCs are pretty low and you'll make the roll. If they "skimp" on points in the skill, failed rolls happen and there is a "negative result" because of it. Not putting skill points into the skill is essentially saying you neglect the bond past lower levels, and your animal behaves accordingly...
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Our group has never used handle animal, really. We put ranks into it, and occasionally it matters what tricks we teach our animals, but generally - and I've been on both sides of the screen in this - animal companions ARE an extension of the druid's will.
But that's just how we role play them, and it's not even a house "rule." We just don't do all that mess; there's never been an official "this is how we are going to handle it" statement. <<; If the druid is attacking something, the companion generally follows suit. If something attacks the companion, it hits back, only very occasionally fleeing from some perceived greater threat. (That said, we also tend to put their first ability point into Int so that they go from 2 to 3 and have greater than animal intelligence. If I had ever gotten to 8 or more, I'd have put all of their points into Int.)
For immersion, it makes more sense to me for an animal whose lifestyle is constant danger and challenge to accept "fight" as the default response to "fight or flight" especially when it's master is in danger, assuming the master treats the animal well. Mostly for druids, but I might argue that for any player with a pet - a fighter with a well trained pitbull that he dotes on regularly? I'd say the thing tackles perceived threats on sight.
my group is the same way
If a druid has animal companion trained to attack, but fails his handle animal check for the companion to attack, will the companion, or can it, defend itself and attack anyway?If the druid has an animal companion trained to attack and fails the check, why doesn't he just try again? With the "Link (Ex)" ability of an animal companion, handling it is a free action.
"Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM. (emphasis added)" (Core Rulebook, p. 181)
I think a reasonable limit is to not allow repeating a free action until you get success.
If you can speak a few sentences within reason as a free action I'd hope you could give an attack command at least a few times. Obviously not a ton, but a couple.