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Alright, this is a call out to anyone that’s been following my Multiclass Archetype thread:
I'd like as many suggestions for APG-based (UM or UC too) multiclasses as I can get. Please provide some general idea as to why it would be a good combo, suggestions for abilities to be swapped between the two classes, and possible new abilities that might emerge from the merger of the two classes, like what I did for the Bone Knight (Cavalier/Sorcerer - Undead Bloodline). I know I’ve been given some in the other thread, but the more suggestions I have, even similar ones with different twist, the more I have to work with.
I’m particularly interested in multiclasses for the Gunslinger, Summoner, Magus, Inquisitor, and Oracle, but any will do also.
Thanks!!
Witch Doctor (Witch or Sorcerer/Druid or Oracle).
Witch Knight (Paladin/Witch)
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Lord of Constructs (Summoner [Vanilla or UM: Broodmaster] & Wizard [UM: Wood or Metal Elemental School] -- Abilities related to construct eidolons.)
Temple Assassin (Inquisitor & Rogue or Ninja -- Abilities related to killing strategic targets of a faith.)
Arcane Vessel (Magus & Oracle -- Abilities stemming from a mental and physical connection to raw magic. Ability to identify items by touch.)
Munitions Expert (Alchemist & Gunslinger -- Ability to create exotic, alchemical ammunitions.)
Taxidermist (Alchemist [UM: Vivisectionist Archetype] & Gunslinger -- Abilities relating to hunting and preserving rare creature specimens and/or collecting grim trophies.)
Light In Darkness (Oracle & Cleric -- Redemption-themed abilities given to an evil cleric, by a good deity.)
Pioneer (Ranger & Inquisitor -- Abilities related to the acquisition and defense of new settlements, from native threats.)
Sworddancer (Bard & Magus [UM: Spellblade Archetype] -- Abilities related to dance and the utilization of animate weaponry.)
Living Song (Bard & Sorcerer [UM: Maestro Bloodline] -- Abilities related to sound, silence, sonic effects, and/or environmental noise.)
The Witch Knight should have: Merciful Hexes - Charmed Blade - Daimon Steed
Also:
Witchblade (Cavalier/Witch): also Daimon Steed, Order of the Cauldron
Chimerae Lord (Cavalier/Alchemist): rides an alchemically enhanced mount, possibly a magical beast
Philosophical Champion (Paladin/Alchemist): Admixture Blade - Chimerical mount
Rosenkreutz (Cavalier/Inquisitor)
For the Chimerae Lord, is good an Order of the Philosophical Stone or an Order of the Holy Grail! XD
I haven't checked out the pdf yet so some may have been covered
Red Right-hand - inquisitor rogue - guild master's enforcer - replace solo tactics teamwork feats with rogue tactics
Town Sheriff - gunslinger inquisitor
Alastor - ranger inquisitor - Favored enemy as Guide archetype with judgment mechanics instead of flat bonus,
Guild Capo - rogue inquisitor - replace trap abilities, blend solo tactics and rogue abilities that benefit a group
Witch Doctor (Witch or Sorcerer/Druid or Oracle).
Witch Knight (Paladin/Witch). The Witch Knight should have: Merciful Hexes - Charmed Blade - Daimon SteedAlso:
Witchblade (Cavalier/Witch): also Daimon Steed, Order of the Cauldron
Chimerae Lord (Cavalier/Alchemist): rides an alchemically enhanced mount, possibly a magical beast
Philosophical Champion (Paladin/Alchemist): Admixture Blade - Chimerical mount
Rosenkreutz (Cavalier/Inquisitor)
I have a Witch Doctor (Witch/Alchemist) and a Witch/Paladin soem one else had sugesstion that is called a White Witch. I like Witch Knight, I may need to change the name. We'll see.
I like Witchblade, the Philosophical Champion is interesting, and the Rosenkruetz might be fun too. I assume that name has a German origin. Translate please.
Lord of Constructs (Summoner [Vanilla or UM: Broodmaster] & Wizard [UM: Wood or Metal Elemental School] -- Abilities related to construct eidolons.)
Temple Assassin (Inquisitor & Rogue or Ninja -- Abilities related to killing strategic targets of a faith.)
Arcane Vessel (Magus & Oracle -- Abilities stemming from a mental and physical connection to raw magic. Ability to identify items by touch.)
Munitions Expert (Alchemist & Gunslinger -- Ability to create exotic, alchemical ammunitions.)
Taxidermist (Alchemist [UM: Vivisectionist Archetype] & Gunslinger -- Abilities relating to hunting and preserving rare creature specimens and/or collecting grim trophies.)
Light In Darkness (Oracle & Cleric -- Redemption-themed abilities given to an evil cleric, by a good deity.)
Pioneer (Ranger & Inquisitor -- Abilities related to the acquisition and defense of new settlements, from native threats.)
Sworddancer (Bard & Magus [UM: Spellblade Archetype] -- Abilities related to dance and the utilization of animate weaponry.)
Living Song (Bard & Sorcerer [UM: Maestro Bloodline] -- Abilities related to sound, silence, sonic effects, and/or environmental noise.)
I'll need to take a look at your Lord of Constructs idea. I've been trying to figure out the best way to turn my "Golemsmith" PrC I created for 3.5E into a multiclass archetype, but being that I haven't played a bunch of the classes, let alone the archetypes, I'm not sure who to combine to get what I want. Pretty much it would be a Spellcaster with the ability to create a bond with a special golem, which they can custom-make; increase AC, damage, special abilities, DR, add a paralye, finger of death or disintegration ray, etc. It was based upon a PC my friend played - a drow wizard who constructed an iron golem giant spider he could actually get inside of for protection, and eventually used a wish to turn it into an adamantine spider golem, and it had a disintegrate wand or sothing or other that served as it's stinger. Went by the name of "Goliath", in honor of the Spacecraft human team's to-legged walking machine that always said "Goliath on line". He was fun.
I like the Temple Assassin concept, the taxidermist (perhaps an ALchemist/Ranger might be better?), the pioneer, sword dancer and living song too.
The Alchemist/Gunslinger combo I had in mind was probably similar to your Munitions Expert, but I called him a Grenadier or Master Gunwright. Must ponder.
Your Arcane Vessel idea puts me in mind of a 3.5E PrC I created called an Arcist. They could manipulate and bend magic to their will, including disjoining spells that are cast at them, snatching and hurling them back at the caster, or disjoining magical items by touch. Again, must ponder.
GREAT STUFF so far everyone. Keep it Coming.
Rosenkreutz (I don't know if I write it properly) is the same as "Rosicrucian" (I guess that name could do well too), aka a member of a secret chivalric/massonic order bound to achieve political power and/or find the Holy Grail.
Please make the Chimera Lord, I have a Bard/Alchemist character who wants to ride a giant mutant cat and this could be just what fits for him^^
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I'll need to take a look at your Lord of Constructs idea. I've been trying to figure out the best way to turn my "Golemsmith" PrC I created for 3.5E into a multiclass archetype, but being that I haven't played a bunch of the classes, let alone the archetypes, I'm not sure who to combine to get what I want. Pretty much it would be a Spellcaster with the ability to create a bond with a special golem, which they can custom-make; increase AC, damage, special abilities, DR, add a paralye, finger of death or disintegration ray, etc. It was based upon a PC my friend played - a drow wizard who constructed an iron golem giant spider he could actually get inside of for protection, and eventually used a wish to turn it into an adamantine spider golem, and it had a disintegrate wand or sothing or other that served as it's stinger. Went by the name of "Goliath", in honor of the Spacecraft human team's to-legged walking machine that always said "Goliath on line". He was fun.
I like the Temple Assassin concept, the taxidermist (perhaps an ALchemist/Ranger might be better?), the pioneer, sword dancer and living song too.
The Alchemist/Gunslinger combo I had in mind was probably similar to your Munitions Expert, but I called him a Grenadier or Master Gunwright. Must ponder.
Your Arcane Vessel idea puts me in mind of a 3.5E PrC I created called an Arcist. They could manipulate and bend magic to their will, including disjoining spells that are cast at them, snatching and hurling them back at the caster, or disjoining magical items by touch. Again, must ponder.
Further brainstorming:
My inner child says the Lord of Constructs could be even more fun if many small golems could come together and form Voltron. Take that or leave it. But honestly, it would be nice to have a mechanic to choose either one golem eidolon or more than one (Broodmaster instead). The giant spider your friend played sounds fun. It reminds me of the Onyx Spiders from Forgotten Realms in Menzo (large black spider statues that would animate and attack enemies of Lolth, as I recall) and also the big mechanical spider from the film Wild Wild West.
As far as the Temple Assassin goes, I've always enjoyed the idea of faiths (good and evil) employing assassins to kill important targets--for evil faiths, it's just common sense (eat breakfast, dispatch murderers), and for good faiths, it's to stop even greater evil from occurring (the old kill-one-to-save-thousands rationale).
The Arcane Vessel could have ties to raw magic by means of abilities that effect their metamagic feats. Maybe they're swappable, or any number of other interesting things. A lot of customization could happen in the metamagic feat department, I think.
The Munitions Expert might be cool if he could just sacrifice bombs/mutagens/etc. on the spot, by pouring them in a special compartment (a modification class feature, maybe) on his gun. That would mute the "Hey--I'm making more bullets!" chatter and shift the focus away from crafting (which the Alchemist often does enough of already).
Ranger could definitely work for the Taxidermist, but the concept as I visualized it was closer to a big game hunter like this guy; someone who just wants more heads on the walls of their office and uses superior technology to achieve that end. I should also mention that I think the vivisectionist archetype is great not only because of the connection to anatomy, but also the lack of ethics (endangered? pff...).
The Light In Darkness didn't really catch your eye, but I think it's an interesting idea: a good deity forces good power upon an evil cleric regardless of whether they like it or not. It would finally be a decent excuse to allow an evil cleric to channel positive energy, among other possibilities. Although I wouldn't blame you if you want to steer clear of alignment/moral rules when possible. I'm often not a fan either.
It might be interesting if the Pioneer had a tie of some sort to strategic architecture (battlements, etc.), as he'd be helping with settlement defenses. This might be hard to tie in, rules-wise; I don't know how I would do it.
The Sworddancer could expand the role of the animate weapon in many ways. I doubt you would need suggestions here, as the possibilities are many.
I had the idea that the Living Song would disappear (through an eventual class feature) in areas of natural/magical silence, after a few moments without significant "background noise". They would become very hard to detect (short duration improved invisibility), but with the trade-off that they would become physically weaker while invisible because they are sustained by sound. If you could roll with this idea somehow, I think it has merit.
Other suggestions:
Evolution Guardian (Ranger/Alchemist): breeds and herds magical beasts and aberrations
Dead Shaman (Bones Wasting Oracle/Undead Sorcerer)
Hand of the God/Goddess (Hexcrafter Magus/Inquisitor)
Mage (Wizard/Witch): from Terry Pratchett's "Equal Rites" & "I Shall Wear Midnight", she's a praticant of both wizard magic (male, power-bound, cerebral) and witch magic (female, natural, helping), creating a new all-round type of wizardry/withcraft.
Witch Hunter (Inquisitor/Witch): in the real sense of the name, hunts enemies of the witch coven which he belongs.
I think ranger makes a lot more sense for taxidermist, since rangers are actually hunters. Gunslingers just use guns. If you want a taxidermist who uses tech/guns, that sounds more like a particular thing (that specific taxidermist would take a feat to let him use guns) and less like a class thing?
In collective imaginary, however, a hunter with stuffed animal heads on the wall uses guns. Rangers kill more for food than sport.
Two new ideas:
Tyresias (Diviner Wizard/Lore Blind Oracle)
Gipsy Queen (Rogue/Witch)
The Lord of Constructs sounds like a Summoner archetype.
I agree.
The Arcane Vessel could swap arcana for revelations, like the Hexcrafter with witch hexes.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Alright, this is a call out to anyone that’s been following my Multiclass Archetype thread:
I'd like as many suggestions for APG-based (UM or UC too) multiclasses as I can get. Please provide some general idea as to why it would be a good combo, suggestions for abilities to be swapped between the two classes, and possible new abilities that might emerge from the merger of the two classes, like what I did for the Bone Knight (Cavalier/Sorcerer - Undead Bloodline). I know I’ve been given some in the other thread, but the more suggestions I have, even similar ones with different twist, the more I have to work with.
I’m particularly interested in multiclasses for the Gunslinger, Summoner, Magus, Inquisitor, and Oracle, but any will do also.
Thanks!!
Could you do a quick list of the ones you're already planning to work on, so that we don't double up with our suggestions? Also, I'm noticing a lot of people are posting suggestions like this:
Tyresias (Diviner Wizard/Lore Blind Oracle)Where you're using specific archetypes to create another new archetype. I don't know if this is the best way to go about it, really, since you could simply end up with an infinite number of possibilities this way. Sometimes, they made a lot of sense, though, like the Dead Shaman (Bones Wasting Oracle/Undead Sorcerer) so I don't wanna say they shouldn't be made. Maybe start with the base APG and Ultimate Magic classes, though.
My biggest suggestions (P=Primary, S=Secondary):
Mystic Rogue - Rogue(P)/Oracle(S) - Simply replace some Rogue Talents with the Oracle's Curse and Revelations class abilities <-- Let me point out that this leads to one of my favorite and most broken builds for a character in all of history, the Rogue archer who can see through mist (Waves Revelation) and casts Obscuring Mist around herself to get sneak damage.
(No name coming to me) - Oracle(P)/Sorceror(S) - Give the Sorceror bloodline with a slower bloodline power progression, replacing Mystery Spells altogether
I don't wanna throw more of them out until I know what you're already working on, but keep up the amazing work!
Stuff...
Here's the lists of APG Multiclass Archetypes so far.
Mutagenic Brute – Barbarain(P)/Alchemist(S)
Blackguard - Antipaladin(P)/Rogue(S)
Bloodfiend - Antipaladin(P)/Sorcerer(S)
Bone Knight - Cavalier(P)/Sorcerer(S) – Undead Bloodline
Radiant Knight - Cavalier(P)/Paladin(S)
Plague Bringer - Witch(P)/Antipaladin(S)
White Witch - Witch(P)/Paladin(S)
Knight Errant - Cavalier(P)/Bard(S)
Arcane Fist - Magus(P)/Monk(S)
Mystic Rogue - Oracle(P)/Rogue(S) - Simply replace some Rogue Talents with the Oracle's Curse and Revelations class abilities <-- Let me point out that this leads to one of my favorite and most broken builds for a character in all of history, the Rogue archer who can see through mist (Waves Revelation) and casts Obscuring Mist around herself to get sneak damage.
Eldritch Warlock - Witch(P)/Sorcerer(S)
Mutant Hag - Witch(P)/Alchemist(S)
Witch Doctor - Witch(P)/Alchemist(S)
The Witch Knight Paladin(P)/Witch(S) - should have: Merciful Hexes - Charmed Blade - Daimon Steed
Witchblade - Cavalier(P)/Witch(S): also Daimon Steed, Order of the Cauldron
Chimerae Lord - Cavalier(P)/Alchemist(S): rides an alchemically enhanced mount, possibly a magical beast
Philosophical Champion - Paladin(P)/Alchemist(S): Admixture Blade - Chimerical mount
Rosenkreutz - Cavalier(P)/Inquisitor(S)
Lord of Constructs - Summoner(P) [UM: Broodmaster]/Wizard (S) [UM: Wood or Metal Elemental School] -- Abilities related to construct eidolons.)
Temple Assassin - Inquisitor(P)/Rogue(S) -- Abilities related to killing strategic targets of a faith.)
Arcane Vessel - Magus(P)/Oracle(S) -- Abilities stemming from a mental and physical connection to raw magic. Ability to identify items by touch.
Munitions Expert - Alchemist(P)/Gunslinger(S) -- Ability to create exotic, alchemical ammunitions.)
Taxidermist - Alchemist (P) [UM: Vivisectionist Archetype]/Gunslinger(S) -- Abilities relating to hunting and preserving rare creature specimens and/or collecting grim trophies.
Light In Darkness - Oracle(P)/Cleric(S) -- Redemption-themed abilities given to an evil cleric, by a good deity.
Pioneer - Ranger(P)/Inquisitor(S) -- Abilities related to the acquisition and defense of new settlements, from native threats.
Sword Dancer - Bard(P)/Magus(S) [UM: Spellblade Archetype] -- Abilities related to dance and the utilization of animate weaponry.
Living Song - Bard(P)/Sorcerer(S) [UM: Maestro Bloodline] -- Abilities related to sound, silence, sonic effects, and/or environmental noise.
Soothsayer/Seer - Oracle(P)//Witch(S) or Witch(P)//Oracle(S)
Evolution Guardian (Ranger/Alchemist): breeds and herds magical beasts and aberrations
Dead Shaman (Bones Wasting Oracle/Undead Sorcerer)
Hand of the God/Goddess (Hexcrafter Magus/Inquisitor)
Mage (Wizard/Witch): from Terry Pratchett's "Equal Rites" & "I Shall Wear Midnight", she's a praticant of both wizard magic (male, power-bound, cerebral) and witch magic (female, natural, helping), creating a new all-round type wizardry/witchcraft.
Witch Hunter (Inquisitor/Witch): in the real sense of the name, hunts enemies of the witch coven which he belongs.
Gipsy Queen (Rogue/Witch)
(No name coming to me) - Oracle(P)/Sorcerer(S) - Give the Sorcerer bloodline with a slower bloodline power progression, replacing Mystery Spells altogether
I agree with cartmanbeck, please st up your suggestions as Class(P)/Class(S), followed by description. I also think trying to combine Classes with archetypes to other classes is too complicated and will create too many combos to work with. So, please give suggestions without using archetypes. Archetypes can always be added to the multiclass archetype by players or GMs.
I think at some point, we may need to do some voting as to what we want to keep, otherwise we will have WAY TOO MANY to work with. For sure, I would like to see at least 2 multiclass archetypes for each of the 8 APG/UM classes, whether as primary or secondary, in the final version, resulting in about 18ish new archetypes. That's lots.
Once the APG Archetypes are done, I want to move to the Prestige Archetypes. They've been fun trying t develop too.
Alright, let's keep going.
Voting would be hard. Maybe we can make another PDF later with the discarded archetypes, they all seem sound to me.
The Oracle/Sorcerer could be called Saint Spawn or something.
What about this:
Redeeming Sword (Paladin/Oracle): A "Joan of Arc" saint type, a spontaneous-casting paladin chosen unexpectedly by the gods to save/guide her people in times of distress.
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Voting would be hard. Maybe we can make another PDF later with the discarded archetypes, they all seem sound to me.
The Oracle/Sorcerer could be called Saint Spawn or something.
What about this:
Redeeming Sword (Paladin/Oracle): A "Joan of Arc" saint type, a spontaneous-casting paladin chosen unexpectedly by the gods to save/guide her people in times of distress.
Ooh, I love the Redeeming Sword one, that should definitely be made for sure.
One that could be really fun is the Mad Biologist - Summoner(P)/Alchemist(S) where you replace the Summon Monster ability (which most people don't want to use anyway, since it replaces their Eidolon) with the Alchemist's Mutagen ability, but instead of it working on the Summoner, he can inject the Mutagens into the Eidolon to give them temporary but specific evolutions, or just a simple bonus to Str and Con.You could give a number of points per day equal to 1/2 the Mad Biologist's level. This would scale very effectively with level, and wouldn't make it too broken, I don't think.
I imagine using 2 points to add Fire damage to all the Eidolon's attacks for, say, the Mad Biologist level + Cha mod rounds. Then in the next battle, say your enemy can fly? You use a mutagen to give your Eidolon wings. The mutagens would still require 1 hour to create (so you can't make them on the spot) and only one can be active on the Eidolon at any given time.
What do you think?
Mad Biologist - Summoner(P)/Alchemist(S) where you replace the Summon Monster ability (which most people don't want to use anyway, since it replaces their Eidolon) with the Alchemist's Mutagen ability, but instead of it working on the Summoner, he can inject the Mutagens into the Eidolon to give them temporary but specific evolutions, or just a simple bonus to Str and Con.
You could give a number of points per day equal to 1/2 the Mad Biologist's level. This would scale very effectively with level, and wouldn't make it too broken, I don't think.
I imagine using 2 points to add Fire damage to all the Eidolon's attacks for, say, the Mad Biologist level + Cha mod rounds. Then in the next battle, say your enemy can fly? You use a mutagen to give your Eidolon wings. The mutagens would still require 1 hour to create (so you can't make them on the spot) and only one can be active on the Eidolon at any given time.
What do you think?
I like this. I would almost have it be a mutagen/extract hybrid, where the Mad Biologist create a mugatenic concoction that duplicates certain extract effects to enhance the eidolon, such as cat's grace to enhance Dex, mage armor to increase AC, haste to increase speed, energy resistance to provide ...enrgy resistance, etc.
I like it too. Go on!
Oh, and you must ABSOLUTELY do this...
Gunslinger (P) + Barbarian (S) = Lethal Weapon
Just two words: "RIIIIIIII-IIIIIGGS!!!!!"
I saw no new suggestions for a while. Maybe we can consider the calling closed? If not, there's a last idea I'd like to share...
Paladin (P( + Summoner (S) = Sabaoth Knight - He can mutate at will and evolve his angelic steed, which has probably humanoid form normally and assumes other shapes if necessary
I saw no new suggestions for a while. Maybe we can consider the calling closed? If not, there's a last idea I'd like to share...
Paladin (P( + Summoner (S) = Sabaoth Knight - He can mutate at will and evolve his angelic steed, which has probably humanoid form normally and assumes other shapes if necessary
This is an interesting idea. Perhaps not the mutate part, but he could be a "celestial summoner" where he has an angelic (celestial) steed that evolves like an eidolon, but, he also summons planar allies insted of monsters. Or summons archons to aid him + his steed? Possibilities formulating.