These rules are for my low level Pathfinder game that is currently set in Steam Punk Victorian England.
I am aware that there are new rules for the gunslinger and other rules for firearms. I haven't read them even though I have the links to them right here in front of me. I wrote these for fun. If anyone would like to comment (especially if your comments are just links to official Paizo gun rules) would be really nice.
To understand some of the rules, you should know our health house rule:
All hp gained after first level is called, "SDC." SDC is first damaged and first healed. A character that has not lost and HP (only SDC) regains all SDC with 5 minutes rest (because he is technically unharmed).
Firearm Rules
Point Blank Range
PBR is simply a weapons first range increment. There are many advantages to firing at someone from within point blank range.
The Special Qualities of Firearms
There are two primary types of firearm barrels – rifled and smoothbore. Smoothbore weapons typically have short ranges, narrower critical hit ranges, and faster reloading times than rifled. Rifled barrels are designed to cause a round to spin, increasing its range and accuracy, though the tighter fit of the barrel causes muzzle loaded weapons to be more difficult to reload.
At point blank range, all types of firearms gain a +4 to strike.
The volley gun, rifled musket, percussion cap rifle and repeater rifle gain the +4 bonus to strike for their first three range increments. No firearm is effective beyond four range increments.
Protection against Firearms - Armor
Most forms of armor are not effective against firearms. Only the steel breast plate and steel cuirass are effective. Certain weapons, such as the percussion cap pistol and the repeater are able to penetrate even plate steal at point blank range.
Protect against Firearms – Movement
The target of a firearm is always flatfooted unless he has cover, concealment, or is running towards cover or concealment. Targets running towards the gunman or ignoring him to sword fight with other people are always flatfooted.
Protection against Firearms – Cover
There are three forms of cover: partial, total and improved.
Partial cover is taken when a gunman hides behind an object but does not let his own cover impede his ability to shoot. For example, a gunman hiding behind a crate taking careful aim at his enemy or firing several rounds has partial cover. Partial cover grants +6 AC.
Total cover is taken when the gunman is concealing almost his entire body and is taking care not to expose himself to enemy fire by only barely sticking his gun out or by exposing himself only for a moment to fire. Total cover grants a -6 to strike and a +10 to AC. Characters using total cover and taking fire must make perception checks to notice anyone, even people standing in the open, that they didn’t already know about. One perception roll per round is free, though a second can be taken instead of shooting.
Improved cover grants a +10 to AC without penalty. Arrow slits and trenches are good examples of improved cover.
Firing on Flat Footed Characters
A flat footed character that takes damage from a firearm takes it directly to hit points, losing all remaining SDC.
Weapon Damage Critical Hit Range Payload Range Increment Rate of Fire Reload Time
Dragon Pistol - Smoothbore 2d8 18+ (x2) 1 10' Single 2 rounds
Ericson Revolver - Rifled 2d6 20 (x3) 6 30' 2 / round 1 turn
Pocket Pistol - Rifled 1d12 20 (x2) 2 15' 2 / round 5 rounds
Pepperbox - Rifled 1d10 20 (x2) 6 20' 2 / round 1 turn
Percussion Cap Pistol - Smoothbore 2d8 20 (x2) 1 20' Single 3 rounds
Percussion Cap Pistol - Rifled 2d8 19+ (x2) 1 30' 6 rounds
Blunderbuss - Smoothbore 3d8 18+ (x2) 1 20' Single 2 rounds
Musket - Smoothbore 2d8 20 (x3) 1 30' Single 4 rounds
Percussion Cap Rifle 2d10 19+ (x2) 1 50' Single 6 rounds
Luther Repeating Rifle 2d10 19+ (x2) 7 50' 4 / round 2 rounds
Volley Gun - Rifled 2d10 20 (x2) 7 30' 2 / round 4 turns
Coach Gun - Smoothbore 3d8 18+ (x2) 2 20' 2 / round 5 rounds
Nock Gun - Smoothbore 2d8 20 (x3) 7 30' Single 4 turns
Dragon Pistol
This wide barreled weapon is designed to increase the spread of its shot and to facilitate faster reloading. The dragon pistol gains an additional +2 to strike at point blank range but doubles its range increment penalty.
Ericson Revolver
The first true ball and cap revolver, this weapon must have the firing chambers waxed in order to prevent accidentally discharging all of them at once. When confirming a critical failure with another 1, all six chambers ignite, dealing 1d8 to the wielder.
Pocket Pistol
This small handgun can easily be concealed in a stocking. The barrels tilt forward for easier reloading.
Firing both barrels grants +2 to the Critical Hit confirmation roll, no additional damage dice and +4 on all intimidation checks immediately after. Confirming a natural 1 with another natural 1 results in the gun exploding, dealing 2d6 directly to the wielders hit points, depleting all SDC.
Pepperbox
Like the pocket pistol, the pepperbox’s barrels tilt forward for quick loading. This gun is extremely dangerous to the wielder. When rolling a natural 1 to strike, make a confirmation roll. If that roll also misses, all of the rounds discharge at once, destroying the gun. The wielder suffers 1d10 damage directly to hp (depleting all SDC) and must make a fortitude save of 20 or suffer a broken wrist.
Percussion Cap Pistols
These high powered, muzzle loaded weapons are capable of penetrating bulletproof armor at pointblank range. The smoothbore variation suffers a -2 to strike beyond point blank range.
Blunderbuss
This weapon was designed for cavalry and mounted infantry to be fast and easy to reload while mounted. Its wide muzzle opening facilitates faster reloading while not appreciably altering the weapon’s scatter. The blunderbuss gains an additional +2 to strike at point blank range but doubles its range increment penalty.
Musket
The musket is an antique weapon, replaced by the percussion cap rifle in most places. Its smoothbore design is extremely inaccurate, but effective when fired in volleys by groups of men. As a smoothbore weapon, it suffers a -2 to strike beyond point blank range.
Many muskets have been rifled, which increases the range by 10’ and doubles the reloading time. Rifled muskets no longer incur -2 penalty.
Percussion Cap Rifle
Some percussion cap rifles (like handguns) were originally flintlock weapons that were converted, though “modern” firearms exclusively use percussion caps because they are reliable in wet conditions. These rifles are muzzle loaded and high powered, capable of penetrating bulletproof armor at point blank range.
Luther Repeating Rifle
This weapon is the first human firearm to use shells. A magazine containing 7 rounds is loaded into the gun. After each round is fired, the next shot is readied by pulling a lever (lever action). This weapon is very new, however its application is obvious; governments and individuals with the money are hurrying to employ them.
The repeater is capable of penetrating plate steel at point blank range.
Volley Gun
The volley gun is a muzzle loaded rifle with 7 barrels. Each barrel must be rotated into firing position (as a move action) prior to firing. The volley gun has been completely phased out by the repeating rifle, which performs the same task more efficiently. Still, they can be found.
The volley gun is capable of penetrating plate steel at point blank range.
Coach Gun
The coach gun is a common weapon for hunting, home defense, and travel. Two long barrels break forward for easy loading. Also known as a shotgun, this weapon is deadly at close range. The coach gun is one of the most versatile weapons.
The statistics listed above suppose a scattershot which gains an additional +2 bonus at point blank range, but suffers double range increment penalties.
The range increment of the weapon can be doubled by loading solid slugs, though its smoothbore design imparts a -2 penalty to strike beyond point blank range. When using solid slugs, change the critical hit range to 20 (x3).
Both barrels can be fired simultaneously. Doing so grants a +4 bonus on intimidation rolls and a +2 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls.
Nock Gun
By initial inspection, the nock gun looks like the volley gun. Instead of firing one barrel at a time, the nock gun is actually designed to fire all barrels together. This weapon creates a vicious spray of deadly shrapnel which targets everything in a 60’ cone. Highly dangerous, firing this weapon requires a DC 15 fortitude saving throw. Failure results in 2d6 points of direct hp damage and depletes all remaining sdc. The character also becomes “nauseated” for 1d4 rounds. Should this first saving throw fail, the character must make a second one immediately. Should that one fail, he also suffers a broken shoulder and is incapacitated.
This weapon is slow to bare and aim. Characters that see it being raised can make a reflex saving throw for half damage, DC 14.
I'd like some MAD in a gun fighter. I'm not sure what attribute should contribute to the strike roll. Besides DEX being a strong enough attribute already, I think it has jack to do with aiming a gun. So what else could it be? My intuition tells me Wisdom, so rangers could be better at their skills AND be great at killing.
I made the damage of the weapons high enough that no attribute needs to add to damage, imo, though I guess you can still use deadly aim.
Any ideas?
Some interesting takes on introducing firearms to a game.
I like the flatfooted idea, although you do mention armor penetration as well, which may make this an incredibly good weapon. The reload time can really curb this, but it will create a weird situation.
With long reload times, and "amazing bonuses to combat", it makes this item something that people will use in the first instance of combat and then forget. Kind of a throwaway one-off, instead of a main combat weapon.
On the flipside, someone who wanted to play a character "all about guns" will either spend half of combat doing nothing but reloading (not having as much fun), or if he finds a way to bypass reload times, kicking far more butt than you might have wanted.
Then again, that might be the feel you are looking for. If everyone is spending rounds in combat reloading behind cover (because most people use firearms), then it might be just the style of gameplay you wanted.
If mixed combat happens, especially with archery, then there are some pitfalls to watch out for.
You didn't mention proficiency, are they like crossbows and simple? martial weapons for smoothbore maybe? If they are commonplace, then it might be a good idea to move actual bows to exotic proficiency (as they would be in more modern day weapon use).
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Some thoughts on the specific rules:
- I noticed you reference "1 Turn" in reload times. Is that the old "10 rounds" thing? It seems familiar, but I can't remember from what edition of rules. It's not exactly used in common 3.5e/Pathfinder parlance anymore, so it could throw some of us here for a loop.
"Turns" typically is used for things like "until the beginning of your next turn" and stuff, so you might want to clarify that for the boards.
- SDC sounds interesting (I can't quite figure out what that acronym might be for). Does Con modifier to hitpoints increase your "first level hitpoints", or does it only count the first hitdice bonus to hitpoints.
Since firearms get a lot of ways to shoot against flatfooted, and most first level hitpoints are going to be less than 20 (a barbarian with 20 Con has only 17 hitpoints, 19 when raging), and firearm damage so high, it means most combat will likely end after 1 to 2 rounds of play.
Might be more realistic, but fairly non-heroic gameplay. This might need retuning.
- Range increment cap at 4. Throwing weapons cap at 5, so for ease of memory, you could maybe set it to that as well. This isn't really a rules balance or realism thing, just an easier way to remember (both firearms and throwing weapons have half the increments is easier to remember).
- A bonus to hit is effectively similar to "armor penetration". A +4 bonus to hit is the same thing as "Hide armor and lower are negated by firearms". It might not equate completely (armor is an amalgamation of overall defense), but for ease of play it seems like it could be enough.
The only major difference is that the bonus still applies against wearing no armor (or less armor bonus than the attack bonus). This sounds fine to me.. I mean, the fun is harder to dodge and causes some severe trauma when it hits you naked anyways, so it makes sense.
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When I was looking at reworking the weapon damage for firearms, I took the following approach:
Smoothbore had heavier load, so did higher damage and crit damage, but less chance of critting. I liked the 20/x4, becuase it was similar to a pick (which, if you think about it, LOTS of force in a small surface area hitting the target).
Rifled gives better chances of hitting, so a wider crit chance, but not as "heavy" a shot, so something like 19-20/x3 (like a falcata).
The shotgun/blunderbuss: Are you giving it an area effect like in Pathfinder (shooting pellets instead of a single slug).
Personally, I considered having two versions: long barrel (for a "line" area effect up to the first range increment), and short "flared" barrel (for a "cone" effect with half first range increment).
A slug load would only do damage to a single target, instead of these area effects, but could go out to the normal increments.
Pathfinder also made it so you rolled an attack roll against every target in the area effect. It plays havoc with other rules though (there were threads on this), so I preferred another method of "lots of dice" effect: use lots of d4s instead of less higher dice.
Instead of 3d8, have 6d4. Picking up 6 dice for damage, even if it's similar overall damage, feels more "shotgun" in effect. And it doesn't mess with the rules of rolling attacks.
That's about it for now I think, I'll post more if I see anything else that jumps out at me.
cranewings wrote: I'd like some MAD in a gun fighter. I'm not sure what attribute should contribute to the strike roll. Besides DEX being a strong enough attribute already, I think it has jack to do with aiming a gun. So what else could it be? My intuition tells me Wisdom, so rangers could be better at their skills AND be great at killing.
I made the damage of the weapons high enough that no attribute needs to add to damage, imo, though I guess you can still use deadly aim.
Any ideas?
Wisdom is good because it's the stat for Perception.
In the big thread about rebalancing the ability scores (mostly on ways to give Charisma more facetime), it was suggested that ranged attack bonus was switched from Dex to Wis.
Dex is still good for initiative (catching others flat footed), and skills based around movement, etc.
A gunslinger will likely want to still have a decent Dex, but having aiming based on Wisdom would spread things out a little better. And yeah, nice boost to Rangers.
Turns were 2e and mean 10 rounds. SDC is from palladium and means structural damage capacity. I didn't use the term at first but it mostly fit and my players love palladium.
Anyway, great stuff. I'll do some reworks tomorrow. Thank you.
Additional question: how should shields play into this?
One thing to remember, there's not a huge difference between having a bullet shot at you, and having an arrow or crossbow bolt shot at you (regarding human reaction time, anyways).
Many justifications for bullets hampering someone's ability to respond can apply equally to other ranged weapons.
That being said, if you want to make shields less effective, losing their benefit while flatfooted is one way (because you don't know/be able to put it in the way of an attack).
I'm not sure if shields need to be reduced in effectiveness though.. and you still have a good portion of your body covered regardless if you can't move it around in front of an attack (like you could a melee attack).
It actually gives a good reason to have shields apply a larger bonus against melee attacks (at least, the base shield AC value), rather than reducing effectiveness against ranged attacks. I mean, normal shields only provide +1 or +2 at most anyways.
Nice work but I'll stick to 'Victoriana'
Kaisoku wrote: One thing to remember, there's not a huge difference between having a bullet shot at you, and having an arrow or crossbow bolt shot at you (regarding human reaction time, anyways).
Many justifications for bullets hampering someone's ability to respond can apply equally to other ranged weapons.
That being said, if you want to make shields less effective, losing their benefit while flatfooted is one way (because you don't know/be able to put it in the way of an attack).
I'm not sure if shields need to be reduced in effectiveness though.. and you still have a good portion of your body covered regardless if you can't move it around in front of an attack (like you could a melee attack).
It actually gives a good reason to have shields apply a larger bonus against melee attacks (at least, the base shield AC value), rather than reducing effectiveness against ranged attacks. I mean, normal shields only provide +1 or +2 at most anyways.
I wasn't suggesting that shields do less. I mean, they are still in the way. I saw a piece of art of a victorian era soldier standing behind a wooden shield supported on wheels which was just big enough to completely hide behind while standing, with a notch on top to rest a barrel. I guess that would be improved cover for whoever is in front of you?
My players wanted steampunk, so I've been learning about the victorians this week, of which I knew nothing about previously. So I guess I could restate the question about shields as, "how did the victorians use shields?"
I've always though shields were too weak. They are awesome if your enemy already needs a high number, like 18 or so, to hit but they suck bad if they only need an 11, sense they are still hitting almost half the time and you are giving up 50% of your damage to hold it instead of a two handed weapon. Raising them against melee might not be bad, and tower shields, on wheels or not, could still use my cover rules.
Kaisoku wrote: Some interesting takes on introducing firearms to a game.
I like the flatfooted idea, although you do mention armor penetration as well, which may make this an incredibly good weapon. The reload time can really curb this, but it will create a weird situation.
It is a good weapon. At point blank range, if you aren't careful, you could end up without an armor or a dex bonus. It comes down to tactics. Against a firearm, your range, cover, and concealment are important for your defense. Standing out in the open, ignoring a gunman 20 feet from you WILL get you killed.
Quote: With long reload times, and "amazing bonuses to combat", it makes this item something that people will use in the first instance of combat and then forget. Kind of a throwaway one-off, instead of a main combat weapon. That's how they did it in all those 3 Musketeer movies I watched. One shot with the rifle and then out comes the rapier.
Quote: On the flipside, someone who wanted to play a character "all about guns" will either spend half of combat doing nothing but reloading (not having as much fun), or if he finds a way to bypass reload times, kicking far more butt than you might have wanted. Well, if you look at the badly formatted chart, the Luther Repeater Rifle is a super weapon. It has a short reload time (comparatively) and if you have the feats to get 4 attacks around, it can fire that fast.
Otherwise, characters will take the quick draw feat and carry several firearms. I think people really did that. I don't have a problem with it.
Quote: Then again, that might be the feel you are looking for. If everyone is spending rounds in combat reloading behind cover (because most people use firearms), then it might be just the style of gameplay you wanted.
If mixed combat happens, especially with archery, then there are some pitfalls to watch out for.
I hear ya. Personally, I wanted a 6th level archer to trash a 6th level gunner in most cases. 4 shots either by one repeater rifle or two weapon fighting and a pair of 6 shooters is about the best you can get. An archer can get more arrows than that with many shot and rapid shot together. The archer can also add his strength bonus to damage, which a gunner can't do. So a gunner with a repeating rifle at 6th level will have 4 shots at 2d10+4 each (60 average) while an archer will have 5 arrows at 1d8+8 (62.5 average). Plus the archer doesn't have to drop guns or spend rounds reloading or even take the quick draw feat or rapid reload feats if he doesn't want.
Quote: You didn't mention proficiency, are they like crossbows and simple? martial weapons for smoothbore maybe? If they are commonplace, then it might be a good idea to move actual bows to exotic proficiency (as they would be in more modern day weapon use). Thematically you would be right and if I was more of a stickler for rules I'd go with that, but I tend to turn a blind eye to exotic weapon choices. Clerics with gods that allow 2 handed swords killed me on the whole idea of restricting weapons. I just let them do.
Quote: - Range increment cap at 4. Throwing weapons cap at 5, so for ease of memory, you could maybe set it to that as well. This isn't really a rules balance or realism thing, just an easier way to remember (both firearms and throwing weapons have half the increments is easier to remember). Thanks, I thought it was 4 for thrown and arrows. I'll change it.
Quote: - A bonus to hit is effectively similar to "armor penetration". A +4 bonus to hit is the same thing as "Hide armor and lower are negated by firearms". It might not equate completely (armor is an amalgamation of overall defense), but for ease of play it seems like it could be enough.
The only major difference is that the bonus still applies against wearing no armor (or less armor bonus than the attack bonus). This sounds fine to me.. I mean, the fun is harder to dodge and causes some severe trauma when it hits you naked anyways, so it makes sense.
I massively increased the bonuses for having cover, so these cancel. What I wanted was for characters to be encouraged to use cover because the normal rules barely call for it. Basically, if you aren't using cover at point blank range, you will notice a sharp decline in your character's life expectancy.
Quote: Smoothbore had heavier load, so did higher damage and crit damage, but less chance of critting. I liked the 20/x4, becuase it was similar to a pick (which, if you think about it, LOTS of force in a small surface area hitting the target).
Rifled gives better chances of hitting, so a wider crit chance, but not as "heavy" a shot, so something like 19-20/x3 (like a falcata).
I kind of do that already, though I just use 19+ (x2) for accurate weapons and 20 (x3) for most smoothbore. Do you like higher critical ranges for guns? I'm not sure I want to blow up the effectiveness of crits anymore. 2d10x3 is already a lot of numbers.
Quote: The shotgun/blunderbuss: Are you giving it an area effect like in Pathfinder (shooting pellets instead of a single slug).
Personally, I considered having two versions: long barrel (for a "line" area effect up to the first range increment), and short "flared" barrel (for a "cone" effect with half first range increment).
A slug load would only do damage to a single target, instead of these area effects, but could go out to the normal increments.
I'd love to have more scatter from the dragon pistol, coach gun, and blunderbuss, but I wasn't sure on how to write it. How would you do it or how has it been done that you like? Here is mine for the blunderbuss:
Blunderbuss - Smoothbore
Damage 3d8
Critical 18+ (x2)
Range 20'
Reload 2 rounds
Blunderbuss
This weapon was designed for cavalry and mounted infantry to be fast and easy to reload while mounted. Its wide muzzle opening facilitates faster reloading while not appreciably altering the weapon’s scatter. The blunderbuss gains an additional +2 to strike at point blank range but doubles its range increment penalty. This weapon can't crit beyond point blank range.
Quote: Pathfinder also made it so you rolled an attack roll against every target in the area effect. It plays havoc with other rules though (there were threads on this), so I preferred another method of "lots of dice" effect: use lots of d4s instead of less higher dice.
Instead of 3d8, have 6d4. Picking up 6 dice for damage, even if it's similar overall damage, feels more "shotgun" in effect. And it doesn't mess with the rules of rolling attacks.
That's about it for now I think, I'll post more if I see anything else that jumps out at me.
Yeah so, tell me more about that blunderbuss and thank you.
Special Strike Bonus
At point blank range, all types of firearms gain a +4 to strike.
The volley gun, rifled musket, percussion cap rifle and repeater rifle gain the +4 bonus to strike for their first three range increments. No firearm is effective beyond five range increments.
This bonus to strike can only be applied by characters making a full attack. Anyone taking more than a five foot step isn’t able to aim carefully enough to gain the bonus (though the +2 bonus for scattershot always applies).
The crit range was just an example. The unique crit range was mimicking the other weapons in the game (pick and falcata), but I had dice damage lower than what you've got right now.
The blunderbuss would probably work like this:
Damage: 4d4
Crit: 20/x3
Range Incr: 30 ft
Special: scatter (line: 30 ft, cone: 15 ft)
If you apply bonuses for soft cover (people in the way), then your shot spreading and passing a target to hit someone behind has less a chance to hit.
Roll one attack roll, apply it against the AC of all the targets in the area of effect, with appropriate cover bonuses to AC.
You have to use pellet shot to get the scatter effect. If you use slug ammo (one big shot), then it shoots like a normal weapons (30' range increment, up to 150 feet on the 5th range increment).
The whole "roll a bunch of dice" thing is moved towards rolling multiple damage dice, instead of multiple attack rolls.
What if it played more like other, similar things in the game. I don't see the blunderbuss as that different from a wand of burning hands or something.
What if it did 4d4 but allowed a reflex save for half. Characters with evasion or partial cover take no damage on a successful save. Characters with partial cover get +4 to the roll.
Something like that?
Yours is good to. My only issue with it is that I don't play with a battle mat 90% of the time (which isn't a big deal) plus I came to low level games just to get away from all the excessive die rolling. A hand full of saving throws for NPCs would work better for me than recalculating several successive strike rolls for one turn.
Actually, my suggestion is one attack roll, that's all. You apply that same attack roll against each target's AC. Just like the Whirlwind feat.
Example wrote: So <Shooter> rolls a 21 to hit. He rolls average damage (4d4 = 10).
There are three people in his line of effect (A, B and C). <Sucker A> has an AC of 20, <Sucker B> has an AC of 18, and <Sucker C> has an AC of 15.
<Sucker A> is hit, he takes 10 damage.
<Sucker B> has soft cover (from A), so he has an effective AC of 22, so no damage.
<Sucker C> has soft cover, but still only has AC 19 with that, so he takes 10 damage.
One attack roll, applied to all three targets.
Great for a hallway clearing weapon.
The soft cover thing is pretty easy to apply without needing the grid factor. If the person has soft cover for ranged attacks, then they have a bonus to AC against the area effect. This is something that you'll already need to keep in mind during normal ranged combat, so applying it shouldn't need anything extra.
The only factor that has more rolls is the damage roll. Spread-fire weapons having the feel of "pick up lots of dice and rolling" is there (that the Pathfinder designers were concerned about maintaining, and I agree with), but without having to roll a whole pile of attack rolls (harder to quickly adjudicate compared to damage vs hitpoints).
I like the idea of Vital Strike getting a dozen dice tossed too. Greater Vital Strike.. 16d4! Whoo! I feels like a wizard!
*Edit*
On Attack Roll vs Reflex Save...
The version I propose (rolling once, like Whirlwind), is less rolls overall (one roll against multiple static ACs, instead of one static DC against multiple Reflex saves).
Second thing, soft cover should apply (it's a ranged attack after all), but soft cover doesn't give a bonus to Reflex saves. It'd be "yet another special rule exception" to make up this difference.
Armor is supposed to apply (high natural armor or a steel breastplate), so now suddenly we need to apply armor stats against a Reflex save, yet another rule exception.
Lastly, this keeps it a different feel than the wizard using a spell.
It just feels "fightery" to make Attack rolls against AC instead of a fixed DC against Reflex saves. I like keeping that distinction so it feels different playing a Wizard than playing a Fighter.
Great stuff man, I'll do it that way. I do like that system for it.
Final question, then I'm all out. What scenario does a fighter's shield give an AC bonus against firearms?
I'd think the heavy steel shield would apply normally. Opinion?
If you are having armor penetration be a factor of armor materials, then steel should apply as equally as a steel breastplate.
Wood is up in the air. If you had wood armor, would it apply against bullets? Actually, the shield probably has thicker wood than armor even.
I'd probably let it apply evenly. The buckler probably not in this case (if you want armor penetration).
Interesting new rules to play around with. A couple questions though, How exactly would you integrate the current pathfinder ranged feats and rules?
After scanning the pfsrd it looks like most of the general ranged feats could apply equally to gunpowder weapons. Quote: Bullseye Shot, Deadly Aim, Disrupting Shot, Far Shot, Low Profile, Missile Shield, Parting Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Shot on the Run. For instance, I would assume a gunman would have a -4 penalty shooting at a target engaged in melee unless he took Precise Shot. And he would also be subject to an AoO if he was threatened while firing unless he had Point Blank Master.
Rapid Shot is the only feat that I can see might need tweaking or clarification to fit with these rules as firearms have loading times.
Quote: Rapid Shot (Combat)
You can make an additional ranged attack.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
Maybe just alter it to state with ranged firearms an additional shot is not gained but the reload time is reduced by 1 or 2 rounds?(still with a -2 penalty to the single gunshot fired)
Did they ever update Masque of the Red death to 3.x? I thought I saw the Ravenloft 1890's book somewhere...
I LOVED the 2E system, and if they updated it, I'd DEFINITELY recommend looking at that for any Victorian settings involving firearms....
TepusFugit wrote: Interesting new rules to play around with. A couple questions though, How exactly would you integrate the current pathfinder ranged feats and rules?
After scanning the pfsrd it looks like most of the general ranged feats could apply equally to gunpowder weapons. Quote: Bullseye Shot, Deadly Aim, Disrupting Shot, Far Shot, Low Profile, Missile Shield, Parting Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Shot on the Run. For instance, I would assume a gunman would have a -4 penalty shooting at a target engaged in melee unless he took Precise Shot. And he would also be subject to an AoO if he was threatened while firing unless he had Point Blank Master.
Rapid Shot is the only feat that I can see might need tweaking or clarification to fit with these rules as firearms have loading times.
Quote: Rapid Shot (Combat)
You can make an additional ranged attack.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Point-Blank Shot.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
Maybe just alter it to state with ranged firearms an additional shot is not gained but the reload time is reduced by 1 or 2 rounds?(still with a -2 penalty to the single gunshot fired)
I'll be honest, I'm not THAT familiar with all the firearms feats. I've just reworked my firearms stuff a bit and increased the reload times, so rapid reload brings it back down to what it is on the chart above.
The rate of fire for these weapons represents the fastest anyone can shoot one. It doesn't matter if you have 10 attacks per round if you have a musket, you only get 1. I mostly play e6 or other low level variations, so I don't get past the point a character can outdo a pair of six shooters or the repeater rifle.
Anyone wielding a firearm can fire them at their maximum rate, but they do so with no modifiers to the roll and their enemies get their full AC and SDC.
Of course, many shot doesn't do anything for firearms.
Here is my new rework on the next post. I'd love more comments or concerns. I know this will change the way the game is played, heavily, but it should.
Firearms
Weapon Damage Critical Hit Range Payload Range Increment Rate of Fire Reload Time
Dragon Pistol - Smoothbore 1d10 20 (x3) 1 5' Single 4 rounds
Ericson Revolver - Rifled 1d12 20 (x3) 6 30' 2 / round 20 rounds
Pocket Pistol - Rifled 1d8 20 (x2) 2 15' 2 / round 10 rounds
Pepperbox - Rifled 1d8 20 (x2) 6 20' 2 / round 20 rounds
Percussion Cap Pistol - Smoothbore 2d8 20 (x3) 1 20' Single 6 rounds
Percussion Cap Pistol - Rifled 2d6 19+ (x2) 1 30' 12 rounds
Blunderbuss - Smoothbore 6d4 20 (x3) 1 15' Single 4 rounds
Musket - Smoothbore 2d10 20 (x3) 1 30' Single 8 rounds
Percussion Cap Rifle 2d8 19+ (x2) 1 50' Single 12 rounds
Luther Repeating Rifle 2d8 19+ (x2) 7 50' 4 / round 4 rounds
Volley Gun - Rifled 2d8 20 (x2) 7 30' 2 / round 80 rounds
Coach Gun – Solid Slug 2d10 20 (x3) 2 30’ 2 / round 20 rounds
Coach Gun - Scattershot 2d8 20 (x3) 2 15' 2 / round 20 rounds
Dragon Pistol
This wide barreled weapon is designed to increase the spread of its shot and to facilitate faster reloading.
A single attack roll is made for this weapon against all targets in a 5 foot wide, 25’ long corridor. Only one strike roll can be made, however damage is applied against each target separately.
The dragon pistol only scores a critical hit in its first range increment. If it does so, no additional targets suffer damage.
Ericson Revolver
The first true ball and cap revolver, this weapon must have the firing chambers waxed in order to prevent accidentally discharging all of them at once. When confirming a critical failure with another natural 1, all six chambers ignite, dealing 2d6 to the wielder’s hit points, depleting all SDC.
Pocket Pistol
This small handgun can easily be concealed in a stocking. The barrels tilt forward for easier reloading.
Firing both barrels grants +2 to the Critical Hit confirmation roll, no additional damage dice and +4 on all intimidation checks immediately after. Confirming a natural 1 with another natural 1 results in the gun exploding, dealing 1d10 directly to the wielders hit points, depleting all SDC.
Pepperbox
Like the pocket pistol, the pepperbox’s barrels tilt forward for quick loading. This gun is extremely dangerous to the wielder. When rolling a natural 1 to strike, make a confirmation roll. If that roll also misses, all of the rounds discharge at once, destroying the gun. The wielder suffers 2d6 damage directly to hp (depleting all SDC) and must make a fortitude save of 20 or suffer a broken wrist.
Percussion Cap Pistols
These high powered, muzzle loaded weapons are capable of penetrating bulletproof armor at pointblank range. The smoothbore variation suffers a -2 to strike beyond point blank range.
Blunderbuss
This weapon was designed for cavalry and mounted infantry to be fast and easy to reload while mounted. Its wide muzzle opening facilitates faster reloading while not appreciably altering the weapon’s scatter.
All targets within 75’ of the blunderbuss in a straight line, five feet wide, are targeted by this attack. One strike roll is made, which is applied to each target. The GM may call for separate damage to be rolled against each victim.
The blunderbuss can only score a critical hit in its first range increment. If it does so, no additional targets suffer damage.
Musket
The musket is an antique weapon, replaced by the percussion cap rifle in most places. Its smoothbore design is extremely inaccurate, but effective when fired in volleys by groups of men. As a smoothbore weapon, it suffers a -2 to strike beyond point blank range.
Many muskets have been rifled, which increases the range by 10’ and doubles the reloading time. Rifled muskets no longer incur -2 penalty.
Percussion Cap Rifle
Some percussion cap rifles (like handguns) were originally flintlock weapons that were converted, though “modern” firearms exclusively use percussion caps because they are reliable in wet conditions. These rifles are muzzle loaded and high powered, capable of penetrating bulletproof armor at point blank range.
Luther Repeating Rifle
This weapon is the first human firearm to use shells. A magazine containing 7 rounds is loaded into the gun. After each round is fired, the next shot is readied by pulling a lever (lever action). This weapon is very new, however its application is obvious; governments and individuals with the money are hurrying to employ them.
The repeater is capable of penetrating plate steel at point blank range.
Volley Gun
The volley gun is a muzzle loaded rifle with 7 barrels. Each barrel must be rotated into firing position (as a move action) prior to firing. The volley gun has been completely phased out by the repeating rifle, which performs the same task more efficiently. Still, they can be found.
The volley gun is capable of penetrating plate steel at point blank range.
Coach Gun
The coach gun is a common weapon for hunting, home defense, and travel. Two long barrels break forward for easy loading. Also known as a shotgun, this weapon is deadly at close range. The coach gun is one of the most versatile weapons.
While it takes a full turn (with rapid reload) to load the weapon, a single barrel can be loaded in 5 rounds.
When using a solid slug, the weapon’s range is longer and the damage to a single target greater.
All targets within 75’ of the coach gun in a straight line, five feet wide, are targeted by this attack. One strike roll is made and applied to each target. The GM may call for separate damage to be rolled against each victim.
The coach gun can only score a critical hit in its first range increment. If it does so, no additional targets suffer damage.
Both barrels can be fired simultaneously. Doing so grants a +4 bonus on intimidation rolls and a +4 bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls (though it does no extra damage). When firing both barrels, the coach gun crits on a 19+ but retains its x3 multiplier.
Firearm Rules
Point Blank Range
PBR is simply a weapons first range increment. There are many advantages to firing at someone from within point blank range.
The Special Qualities of Firearms
There are two primary types of firearm barrels – rifled and smoothbore. Smoothbore weapons typically have short ranges, narrower critical hit ranges, and faster reloading times than rifled. Smoothbore weapons that fire single rounds have higher critical modifiers because if the shot actually hits, it is heavier and will do more damage. Rifled barrels are designed to cause a round to spin, increasing its range and accuracy, though the tighter fit of the barrel causes muzzle loaded weapons to be more difficult to reload.
Smoothbore weapons that fire single rounds suffer a -2 penalty to strike past their first range increment.
Many firearms can only be fired once per round. A character with more than one attack will not be able to take more than 1 unless he has a weapon that allows it. The rate of fire represents the maximum speed at which a firearm can be fired under ideal conditions. Any character can fire a gun at its maximum rate, however his attack rolls are made without modifiers and critical hits are always 20 (x2) regardless of weapon.
Firearms add Wisdom to strike.
Special Strike Bonus
At point blank range, all types of firearms gain a +4 to strike when making a full attack. It is necessary to make a full attack, even if you have only a single action, in order to gain this bonus.
The volley gun, rifled musket, percussion cap rifle and repeater rifle gain the +4 bonus to strike for their first three range increments.
Scattershot weapons receive the bonus to their 2nd, 3rd and 4th range increments. This includes the dragon pistol, coach gun, and blunderbuss.
It’s interesting to note that a smoothbore firearm has a +4 to strike (on a full attack) at its first range increment and a -2 at its second. That is quite a difference; the -2 is added onto the weapons normal range penalty for a total of -4.
Special Strike Penalty
Characters shooting a firearm or arrow but not making a full attack (for example, because they moved) suffer a -4 penalty. A gunner jogging with a smoothbore musket from 50 feet will have a -8 to strike.
Protection against Firearms - Armor
Most forms of armor and shields are not effective against firearms. Only the steel breast plate, masterwork heavy steel shield and steel cuirass are effective. Certain weapons, such as the percussion cap pistol and the repeater are able to penetrate even plate steal at point blank range.
Protect against Firearms – Movement
The target of a firearm is always flatfooted unless he has cover, concealment, or is running towards cover or concealment. Targets running towards the gunman or ignoring him to sword fight with other people are always flatfooted.
Protection against Firearms – Cover
There are three forms of cover: partial, total and improved.
Partial cover is taken when a gunman hides behind an object but does not let his own cover impede his ability to shoot. For example, a gunman hiding behind a crate taking careful aim at his enemy or firing several rounds has partial cover. Partial cover grants +6 AC.
Total cover is taken when the gunman is concealing almost his entire body and is taking care not to expose himself to enemy fire by only barely sticking his gun out or by exposing himself only for a moment to fire. Total cover grants a -6 to strike and a +10 to AC. Characters using total cover and taking fire must make perception checks to notice anyone, even people standing in the open, that they didn’t already know about. One perception roll per round is free, though a second can be taken instead of shooting.
Improved cover grants a +10 to AC without penalty. Arrow slits and trenches are good examples of improved cover.
Firing on Flat Footed Characters
A flat footed character that takes damage from a firearm (or arrow) takes it directly to hit points, losing all remaining SDC.
Firearm Modifiers to Strike
Full Attack at Point Blank (most weapons) +4
Full Attack with Accurate Pistols and Rifles at First Three Range Increments +4
Full Attack with Scattershot Weapons at Range Increments 2-4 +4
Shooting without Making a Full Attack -4
Smoothbore Single Shot Weapons Beyond Point Blank Range -2
Penalty per Range Increment -2 (-8 Max)
Shooting while Taking Total Cover -6
Firearm Modifiers to AC
Partial Cover +6
Full or Improved Cover +10
Important Notes
Only certain armors provide an AC bonus against ranged weapons and some firearms ignore any kind of armor. Characters become flatfooted against firearms if they do not have cover or concealment, or if they are in the open but not running for cover or concealment. Characters being shot while flat footed suffer damage directly to HP.
Super Armor Characters
Characters with both a shield (heavy steel, masterwork) and a suit of armor which is capable of stopping bullets at point blank range are never flatfooted against a gunman.
New Rules and Archery
At point blank range, when making a full attack, traditional War Bows and Crossbows gain a +4 strike bonus and may ignore any armor. From beyond point blank range, steel armor applies normally.
Making a Gunner
Two feats are very important to gunmen – quick draw and rapid reload. The reloading times are extremely long, and reflect the amount of time it takes to load a weapon without special training. Most soldiers with only a single feat will have rapid reload.
Rapid reload is now the prerequisite for the quick draw feat. Any character that has spent enough time with firearms to draw and aim them quickly will have become proficient in loading them.
Many shot is not applicable to firearms.
phantom1592 wrote: Did they ever update Masque of the Red death to 3.x? I thought I saw the Ravenloft 1890's book somewhere...
I LOVED the 2E system, and if they updated it, I'd DEFINITELY recommend looking at that for any Victorian settings involving firearms....
The Living Death campaign (which used the MotRD rules) converted to 3E in the last years it was active. In it, firearms basically went against touch AC (nobody wore armor, although some people had spells and a few PCs were unlucky - yes, unlucky - enough to have magic items that altered AC). The biggest thing going for firearms was that dice of damage exploded: a revolver might do 2d6+3, and if you rolled a 6 on the die, you kept that result and rolled that die again...
Nice revival.
Amusingly, the person you're replying to is still active.
Scythia wrote: Nice revival.
Amusingly, the person you're replying to is still active.
That's why I necro'd the thread. I wouldn't have bothered otherwise...
I'm going to leave this here.
And it is easy to tell if a person is active. Just check their latest posts. That being said, the person he was replying to IS INDEED still active,
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