So I developed this in 3.5 and haven't had a chance to try it out in PF but it should work just as well. When I run a game I make it so that the Cha Modifier Effects the cost of items from NPC's I've played around with it adjusting how much but I found that if you apply the inverse of the mod to every 1000 gp in value its enough to add interest but not breaking. It makes sure the party has at least one face (something my players used to just do without) and since most purchases go though the face at the table I can monitor what the players have and they end up discussing the synergy between what they get a lot more. Also, our games are pretty hack and slash and this gives players a bit of encouragement to step out into the RP arena.
Just to make sure it's clear if an item cost 1000gp base and a pc with a +5 cha was buying it it would cost them 955. If they have a -2 cha it would cost 1002. If they sold it back they would get 502.5 and 499 respectively.
Works for me. May or may not work for you. That's why it's a house rule.
I've considered using CHA to augment the cost of items in game, but (CHA/10)% hardly seems worth the trouble of tracking. Not knowing your game, maybe every gold piece does end up mattering, but in my experience, after level two players throw handfuls of gold around as tips.
CHA_MOD% might be enough, but I still don't think it's worth the effort.
In my upcoming game, I'm planning to use the Plot Twist Cards, and am considering using CHA MOD to augment how they work (I haven't received the cards yet to make a determination).
What I do is not allow people to lower abilities below 10 and use a 25 point buy, sure a lot of characters have a 10 but many people play bards, clerics, paladins, and oracles so someone in the party has a decent charisma.
Never understood why people think charisma is under powered maybe they don't use social skill checks or something. A town of unfriendly and indifferent people doesn't sound like a nice place to be. You always want to make some NPC's friendly or helpful.
On topic a bit more if you want to make haggling rules just base price on NPC attitude.
Hostile (+20% if they sell to you at all)
Unfriendly (+10%)
Indifferent (normal book price)
Friendly (-10%)
Helpful (-20%)
Selling to them would probably be in steps of 5% modifiers.
Just an idea, I find haggling with shopkeepers boring and just do most shopping off camera as it were.
CHA is good as is in a good roleplaying game, no doubt, but it definitely lacks crunchy effect for higher combat games.
Other "Making Charisma Count" crunchier rules:
- Hero Points: Max Hero Points are adjusted by CHA bonus
- Hero Points: Bonus to re-rolls due to Hero Points is adjusted by CHA bonus
- Healing: any spell or spell-like ability that heals the character for hitpoints is modified by the character's CHA bonus, applicable only once per spell or spell-like effect
- Affliction Resistance: any ongoing effect that afflicts the character due to a failed saving throw may be saved against a second time using the first full round action available to the character using the character's CHA bonus instead of the normal saving throw stat bonus
Here's a thought. In cases of open duels (one on one combat), let Charisma be used to help determine initiative. The two foes stare at one another, eye to eye. Whomever flinches...goes second. The one with the more forceful personality browbeats the lesser into submission, or at least going second.
IMO, Charisma is fine and already serves a purpose in game (its an important stat for bards, clerics, paladins and sorcerers; boosts modifiers for skills points and determines the spell save DC for some classes). Still, improving the role of Charisma in game is cool.
It should have some ability though outside of those classes and be something that people outside of those classes might think a little bit on before dumping.
That say, it shouldn't be too powerful but shant be too weak either. some sort of balance between the two.
I like the idea of tying charisma into hero points but I wouldn't just make it the basis of them.
Giving everyone extra anything for having a high charisma overcompensates the classes that have it as a prime or secondary ability score. A Paladin already gets great saves bases on charisma giving him extra action points or what not is to much.
But, having feats tied to action points having a charisma prerequisite and modifiers based on the charisma bonus is a good thing.
Example.
Extra hero points
Prerequisite Charisma 13
You gain an exta "X" number of hero points.
Very heroic
Prerequisite Charisma 15
You add your charisma bonus to the die roll when you spend an action point.
Ect...
Adam Ormond wrote: I've considered using CHA to augment the cost of items in game, but (CHA/10)% hardly seems worth the trouble of tracking. Not knowing your game, maybe every gold piece does end up mattering, but in my experience, after level two players throw handfuls of gold around as tips.
CHA_MOD% might be enough, but I still don't think it's worth the effort.
This is just the number I settled on in my games. My players like to milk every copper for what they can. I like it being based on an easy % system to make it run quicker and easier in my head and Cha Mod % got to add up too quickly.
I have been toying around with a sub-set in the skill system. Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Performance, and Disguise are removed from the skill list. For every two skills removed, the class looses 1 skill point (rounded down). All this goes to the Personality List.
The Personality List is composed of the above skills as well as:
Feint - removed from Bluff
Entice - an equivalent skill to intimidate, except the target gets Fascinated, not Shaken
Bargain - the only way to adjust the price of an item
Temperament - this replaces the static DCs of diplomacy, intimidate with an opposed roll, like bluff vs. sense motive. There are bonuses and penalties associated with it. I am likely changing it to a set number as opposed to a opposed roll. It is only for non-magical uses of skills, it will not replace Will saves.
Each PC gets 1 + skill points lost + Cha mod points. The class list have to be made up. Otherwise this works just like skills.
I personally think 3rd Edition did an EXCELLENT job of making Charisma less of a dump stat and that Pathfinder improved slightly on that.
However I a strongly of the opinion that when it comes to the "Making Charisma Matter" designers have reached the point of excessive diminishing returns. Pretty much ANYTHING you can add is going to come across to players as rules tinkering for the sake of the GM's aesthetics. Players are more likely to resent you for complicating the rules than think you added a much needed correction. Resist the urge!
Now there is probably still some ground out there to "Make Charisma Matter" more, but you are not likely to find in the well explored areas of combat, class features, equipment, and skills. But for instance Kingmaker did a lot for making Charisma more important.
Also in my opinion Charisma has lost a lot of its status as the "Dump Stat". If anything I have started to see Wisdom turn into the "Dump Stat" especially for classes with high Will Saves.
Just make Will saves based on Charisma. It makes more sense that way anyways.
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