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I would like to live in its decline, so that I can ride around on a motorcycle fighting for gasoline and energy.
Grarr!
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Well, aren't you lucky then!
I'd rather live in an ascendency. It's much more likely I could have a positive effect, rather than fighting against entropy.
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There's usually more opportunities for decadent hedonism during the decline of a civilization than during its rise, so I opt for decline.
Orgies and binges and bloodsports, oh my!
I think the operative questions are what civilization, when in its ascendancy and when in its decline? Because it's always struck me that the decline tends to have far more cool stuff available to everyone as leftovers from the previous ascendancy, and renaissance periods that come afterward are always cooler than the first ascendancy. A renaissance is generally version 2.0 that debugs what came before.
Not really the question for me, for I *am* the decline of civilisation.
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What's also important is what social class or caste you get to be in such an environment. A noble in decline is pretty nice, but mainly because you're able to take the benefit out of the peasants' mouths. Whereas in ascendancy, the peasant's lot is rather well secured, while much of the responsibility of continuing to run such an operation rest on the upper echelon who, for the benefits of ascendency, can't reap as much for themselves as they would be able to if they allow the civilization to decline instead of ascend.
Not really the question for me, for I *am* the decline of civilisation.
I think you are magical.
Apres moi, le deluge!
...
Declines suck.
Don't worry, I'll let you be in my gang.
Not really the question for me, for I *am* the decline of civilisation.I think you are magical.
Just because billions of my victims scream my name?
You're making me blush. :)
Not really the question for me, for I *am* the decline of civilisation.I think you are magical.
Just because billions of my victims scream my name?
You're making me blush. :)
Victims? I find it funny you use that word. How are billions your victims and not just participants in the big game?
ALL HAIL TENSOR, MASTER OF OUR NEW HELL
Well we seem to be in Decline, so I guess you guys are McLovin' it :P
Well we seem to be in Decline, so I guess you guys are McLovin' it :P
[bubble bubble bubble]
Hell, yeah!
[bubble bubble bubble]
Victims? I find it funny you use that word. How are billions your victims and not just participants in the big game?
It's a term of endearment.
Neither.Me, too. I think I'd prefer the Pax Romana period of any civilization. I'd rather read about the Zombie Apocolypse decline...
[zombie][/zombie]
Neither.Me, too. I think I'd prefer the Pax Romana period of any civilization. I'd rather read about the Zombie Apocolypse decline...[zombie][/zombie]
I think zombies come in the ascendency period, because in the decline there is not enough money to pay all those movie extras.
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All in all I'd prefer to live in an ascendency..I'm already living in a decline.
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Neither.Me, too. I think I'd prefer the Pax Romana period of any civilization. I'd rather read about the Zombie Apocolypse decline...[zombie][/zombie]
I think zombies come in the ascendency period, because in the decline there is not enough money to pay all those movie extras.
Actually it is more likely the decline...They arnt wasting wages on High paid actors to play the part of Zombies. Bruce Willis's 10 million dollar movie fee can buy an army of Zombie extras.
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Actually it is more likely the decline...They arnt wasting wages on High paid actors to play the part of Zombies. Bruce Willis's 10 million dollar movie fee can buy an army of Zombie extras.Neither.Me, too. I think I'd prefer the Pax Romana period of any civilization. I'd rather read about the Zombie Apocolypse decline...[zombie][/zombie]
I think zombies come in the ascendency period, because in the decline there is not enough money to pay all those movie extras.
Interesting. Now, I can imagine Stephan Hawking saying these scenarios
cancel out, and therefore there are no zombie movies.
I'd prefer to live at the dawn of the pinnacle of a cybernet/shadowrun civilized society. I'd love to be spliced and have cybernetic enhancements.
I seriously doubt the United States will exist in thirty years. Chances are that it will break up into smaller countries/fiefdoms; and this breakup will be the start of a new dark age. God help us all- especially the young.
Can't wait. Though this gives us Europeans time to decide what we'll do when that happens: Ceaselessly laugh at you, or invade. Though I think the course is quite clear: We'll invade, laughing all the time. And then we'll dress up your leaders as native Americans and toss them into the sea :P
... Chances are that it will break up into smaller countries/fiefdoms; and this breakup will be the start of a new dark age. God help us all- especially the young.
The warfare will be awesome. I can't wait for the fun to begin.
How would this go down:
(Also, this would make a great board game.)
p.s. I'm using robots in the fight.
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The irony is that a big part of our problem comes from the misguided attempt of our leaders to implement several European style policies at the Federal level without taking into account the issues of scaling. Most European countries are the size of postage stamps and none of them are nearly as big as the US.I seriously doubt the United States will exist in thirty years. Chances are that it will break up into smaller countries/fiefdoms; and this breakup will be the start of a new dark age. God help us all- especially the young.Can't wait. Though this gives us Europeans time to decide what we'll do when that happens: Ceaselessly laugh at you, or invade. Though I think the course is quite clear: We'll invade, laughing all the time. And then we'll dress up your leaders as native Americans and toss them into the sea :P
I'm young, and by the time it is determined whether or not you're right, you'll all be dead or something. But then I seriously doubt the US will be divided up in three or even four decades. But then I'm optimistic and doubt that European-style polices (whether liberal or conservative) can drive the country into the ground. Sure, we'll have crazy freak nature, freak debt (probably just paying off the debt by that time, not paying for anything else) and China and India will be near the peak of their ascendancy, but I don't think it likely that we'll allow anyone to secede.
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California should attack north and claim the entire west coast.Not gonna happen. We have a navy station here now!
The plain states have all the food production, they would have a lot of leverage. Probably plain states would annex the southern states, and force that population to attack the east coast.Border/coast states would just open trade with other nations. And most of the southern states have at least some agricultural lands left.
I don't think the east coast could stand on its own unless it made a diplomatic deal with England. For what, I'm not sure..
In exchange for England getting control of the original 13 sates again, of course!
You forgot Texas, Hawaii, and Alaska.
Texas would secede, make war on Mexico AND the rest of the US at the same time, taking out Mexico City with one nuke to prevent flanking, then mobilising the jellyfish masses in the now huge Gulf dead zone to attack Louisiana. Then they would start using their massive army to take over the plains and all the other southern states except California, which would by that time be ready to set off explosions in nuclear (domestic and military use) plants via both viruses AND robots, resulting in a Cold War-type stalemate.
Hawaii would take the opportunity to secede, kicking out the occupiers and using its new navy to unite the Philippines, Guam, and all the other US properties in the Pacific, until China, Korea (North Korea a nuclear wasteland), Indonesia, India, and Australia intervened . . .
Alaska would cause fallout that covered the Arctic Circle . . .
Oh, and the new state of Puerto Rico would join the United States of the Isthmus in the fight against Texas.
I don't like the decline, I wanna see what ascendancy looks like, rather than read about it...
does the China Shop Dance
California should attack north and claim the entire west coast.Not gonna happen. We have a navy station here now!
Nevada?
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California should attack north and claim the entire west coast.Not gonna happen. We have a navy station here now!Nevada?
Nevada would probably ally with California anyway. They're quite close in outlook to the inland Californians anyway. The big difference is between the Coast and Inland.
In addition, Inland California is a huge, well-orchestrated, high-tech agricultural operation. It easily feeds itself and a large portion of the rest of the world alone. California loses more money in tax to the federal government than in services back into the government, so a secession would result in a net economic gain. The main question is whether it would be a net political gain, as well, and that's less of a sure thing. Definitely Texas would be the main enemy to worry about, but they could lose the Plains States without noticing.
The Rockies make a great natural barrier, and barring them, the Sierra Nevada and Mojave Desert are an even better natural barrier (they'd lose Nevada, though).
California's main challenge would be to make sure the urbanite coast and the rural inland work together well. However, combining inland work ethic with better immigration agreements with Mexico, a decent Coastal diplomat to get Old World powers to declare, "We never really liked the US, but the Californians are okay," and increased economics remaining on Californian soil, they would be in much better position to do decently for themselves and prevent an invasion by the Texan army. With Lawrence Livermore Labs, Area 51, San Diego, and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, combined with Silicon Valley, Las Vegas, and Hollywood, you've got a solid backbone of technology, military, trade, and dare I say, propaganda at your disposal.
The real fight would be over Alamogordo. Probably Texan. Not sure what Arizona and Utah do, however.
California loses more money in tax to the federal government than in services back into the government, so a secession would result in a net economic gain. The main question is whether it would be a net political gain, as well, and that's less of a sure thing.
If California successfully succeeded it would be a political gain for California, and a loss for the sitting government from which it succeeded.
I'm curious why they just don't do it now.
California should attack north and claim the entire west coast.Not gonna happen. We have a navy station here now!Nevada?
Oregon.
No one ever thinks of Oregon.
Just had this conversation yesterday: If California seceded, it was concluded that Oregon and Washington would very quickly be going "Can we join you?" to which California would go "Sure, why not?"
As for Texas, I'm assuming there'd be some trade for oil, but I'm really not certain about the business of war. Besides which, if there were war, the easiest tactic California could take is to remind Mexico of the rather neatly transacted Treaty of Guadelupe and arrange for California to expand its holdings to include Baja California in exchange for giving Mexico aid in retaking Texas.
Good deal for Mexico, good deal for California, and takes care of the whole Texas problem.
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Nevada would probably ally with California anyway. They're quite close in outlook to the inland Californians anyway. The big difference is between the Coast and Inland.
California's main challenge would be to make sure the urbanite coast and the rural inland work together well.
I'm not usually the type to toot my own horn, but... called it.
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The decline and fall of our civilization has become more and more evident since the late 1960's; and is now accelerating rapidly due to our present Depression with its continuing high unemployment. I seriously doubt the United States will exist in thirty years. Chances are that it will break up into smaller countries/fiefdoms; and this breakup will be the start of a new dark age. God help us all- especially the young.
Excellent I call dibbs on New England. I want to be called Count Gruumash. You heard it here when the US breaks up I get New England.
The decline and fall of our civilization has become more and more evident since the late 1960's; and is now accelerating rapidly due to our present Depression with its continuing high unemployment. I seriously doubt the United States will exist in thirty years. Chances are that it will break up into smaller countries/fiefdoms; and this breakup will be the start of a new dark age. God help us all- especially the young.Excellent I call dibbs on New England. I want to be called Count Gruumash. You heard it here when the US breaks up I get New England.
I don't think so, buddy! In New England, every goblin is equal and we bow to no orc!