So if my party encounters a monster, takes it on for several rounds, gleams information on its fighting tactics, fails to defeat it, and runs away, do they get experience for that monster?
That depends on whether you "designed" the encounter around that idea, with them fleeing successfully being the intent of the encounter.
If it was just a run-of-the-mill deal and they got in, got the crap kicked out of them, and they ran away with tails tucked.. then no. They didn't defeat the encounter and I'd not award XP.
If, assuming for the sake of argument, that I did. I'd dock them that amount at the end if they later went and defeated it.
i.e. no getting extra Xp for running away then coming back and killing it later.
Again- assuming it isn't some DM plot hook arranged thing.
(I could see, for example, them freeing someone and running away with her from a more powerful critter.. where the goal was really to free the person/find the item and flee etc. rather than a head-to-head confrontation.)
-S
Random Encounter, there to kill them. it failed to kill them, but they failed to kill it either.
I'd award XP for good judgement in cases like these. Sometimes the dice just won't cooperate with the best laid plans. The only real caveat is if they had to run away from the monster because of bad planning, or unwise decision making.
I don't usually give out exp for failed encounters, but it they learned something new from their loss I may give them 10% (and deduct the same if they head back later to finish the job having learned from their mistakes).
If they actively participate in the encounter and survive to have further encounters, then I give them full XP.
The only time I wouldn't, is if it becomes obvious they are abusing my generosity by "mining for XP" by attacking, running away, and attacking again.
After all, you can learn more from a loss than you can from a victory many times.
That, and I think the RAW supports me on this somewhere.
Just sticking my head in to make my usual "Throw away the XP table, be freeeee!" comment.
I'm with Shifty. Throw away the XP table and manage your campaigns according to the challenges in front of the characters. Stop worrying about whether to award partial XP for an incomplete encounter, or if three goblins flee and fight again in another battle do you award XP for them twice? Irrelevant to the story. Irrelevant to the plot. XP is perhaps the single worst mechanic in the game.
So if my party encounters a monster, takes it on for several rounds, gleams information on its fighting tactics, fails to defeat it, and runs away, do they get experience for that monster?
A question. Was the encounter appropriate to the party? I.e. should they have won or had a decent chance of doing so? Or should it have handed them their heads? If it should have killed them and they got away, XP. If it should have been a walk over for them and they booked, no XP. If it was a toss up, partial XP if the "tactical withdrawal" was the best option they had. My 2 cp.
As for those "no to XP" people... heretics!! :D
I'm with Shifty. Throw away the XP table and manage your campaigns according to the challenges in front of the characters.
I'm with Shifty. Throw away the XP table and manage your campaigns according to the challenges in front of the characters.
Heathens and heretics!!! Start piling the wood!! Where's the Inquisition when you need it?!
Just sticking my head in to make my usual "Throw away the XP table, be freeeee!" comment.
I haven't used encounter xp since the 80s. :)
(in fact, in our latest campaign we've done away with xp entirely.)
So if my party encounters a monster, takes it on for several rounds, gleams information on its fighting tactics, fails to defeat it, and runs away, do they get experience for that monster?A question. Was the encounter appropriate to the party?
They are 6 players of 6th level. The monster was of CR 6. On top of that, the players have their tactics down. they can easily handle something 2 crs higher with little difficulty. they more or less have the bestiaries memoeized. they do however tend to have more trouble when the monster appears only in the adventure, which is the case this time.
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So if my party encounters a monster, takes it on for several rounds, gleams information on its fighting tactics, fails to defeat it, and runs away, do they get experience for that monster?
Are the players gleaming information so they can return to defeat the monster later? If that is the case, I would not grant XP until they returned. Otherwise they would get double the XP for a single creature.
What an odd levelling tactic that would be,
1. encounter creature
2. appropriate knowledge check and two turns of combat
3. run away (Granted XP award)
4. get vulnerability and tactics down
5. come back to defeat monster again (granted XP award)
Should my players be reading this post...it ain't happening...no no no
They are 6 players of 6th level. The monster was of CR 6. On top of that, the players have their tactics down. they can easily handle something 2 crs higher with little difficulty. they more or less have the bestiaries memoeized. they do however tend to have more trouble when the monster appears only in the adventure, which is the case this time.
Aww, poor Kevin. So maligned in your posts, Dale. :)
CR 6 against a group of 6 Level 6 characters, yes. But the beastie was an aquatic creature that attacked us from beneath a frozen lake. Dragged down one of our full-plate wearing fighters after about half a dozen rounds of combat. We freed her and got out of there, while it likewise retreated to lick its wounds (apparently we were within a single attack of killing it when the mutual retreat happened). So, really--we were running from the circumstance more than the creature.
when the mutual retreat happened).
It wasn't retreating as much as it had dinner and was taking it back to its lair where it wouldn't be harmed. And while it is true that Kevin does metagame the monsters, the group didn't do so well the first time they met a Drekvac. And you guys didn't even take on the Silver Bell plant (from the Book of Beasts).
By RAW, you get XP for overcoming obstacles, not necessarily defeating monsters.
Right. I get that. A trap goes off and you survive, you get XP. Sure.
But the word "overcome" is the tricky part of that sentence. Because running away does not scream "overcome" to me. To me, running away screams ... well ... "running away." The two to me seem diametrically opposed to each other in this instance. Mind you if the encounter was to thwart the demon lord and his plans for a zombie apocalypse and the players do not kill the demon lord but do stop his plans for the zombie apocalypse and then run away afterwards, absolutely. Full XP.
But this was a random encounter at their CR. Below their CR actually since there are 6 PCs. Basic, run of the mill, the monster attacks you and you kill it to turn the monster into a chunk of XP. It was trying to get dinner and while they did stop its plans for dinner, the encounter didn't advance the plot any. Just a "there's a dangerous monster in your lands and you kill it" type of encounter. Hence why I don't feel they deserve XP for it. The point of the encounter was to kill the random monster. They failed in that endeavor.
If the players would have avoided the encounter by sneaking around or hiding would they have gotten full XP?
Encounters, in my opinion, are not linear. Players should be rewarded for overcoming them. Overcoming an encounter is moving past it with the capacity to face new encounters.
Full XP for any of the above would be my call. There is no shame in running away from something just as there is no shame in not picking a fight with something that can eat you whole.
Basic, run of the mill, the monster attacks you and you kill it to turn the monster into a chunk of XP. It was trying to get dinner and while they did stop its plans for dinner, the encounter didn't advance the plot any. Just a "there's a dangerous monster in your lands and you kill it" type of encounter. Hence why I don't feel they deserve XP for it. The point of the encounter was to kill the random monster. They failed in that endeavor.
In this case, you might approach it from the other side. What was the wandering monster's motivation? It wanted dinner. It apparently almost had dinner but it got away. I would say that the PCs did indeed thwart the monster. While not as epic as preventing a Demon Lord from unleashing a zombie apocalypse on the land, the monster was defeated. Award XP for defeating a monster.
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Anyone here ever read the IUDC stories? Great stuff there. One of the mechanics used was xp awarded based on treasure accumulated, so individuals would defeat centaurs with ludicrous gems, steal the gems, pardon the centaurs, then repeat the process for infinite xp.
Awarding xp for running away seems very fair. After all, it's how villains level up!
They are 6 players of 6th level. The monster was of CR 6. On top of that, the players have their tactics down. they can easily handle something 2 crs higher with little difficulty. they more or less have the bestiaries memoeized. they do however tend to have more trouble when the monster appears only in the adventure, which is the case this time.So if my party encounters a monster, takes it on for several rounds, gleams information on its fighting tactics, fails to defeat it, and runs away, do they get experience for that monster?A question. Was the encounter appropriate to the party?
Sounds like they missed out on "overcoming" then. It was below their CR and they left the area. In a hurry. That doesn't shout "overcoming" to me. It isn't about the monster not getting dinner imo, it's about their failure to defeat it. If they had killed it, captured it, held the field while it fled, then I'd say they overcame it. They did live to fight another day, which, in this case, should be it's own reward. My 2cp.
Was the PURPOSE of the encounter to gain intelligence? If not, no xp by the rules.