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Just seeing if anyone else is having this issue. Most Old School gamers have hundreds if not thousands invested in RP books and etc...
I have been playing with a group of 5-9 players(rotating DM's between 4 of us) for the last 5 years and thankfully although they ordered 4E they hated it, so as a group we decided to give PF a try. We ran a straight PF game and loved the new skill rules/sets and class options (its a great game system) and we decided to add it into our gaming as an upgraded 3.75 D-n-D/PF hybrid games. I did not want to stop using all the resources of 3.5 that i had invested in. This lasted about 6 months and now were to the point where we seldom have a game allowing 3.5.
I love PF but i have the above invested amount in 3.5 (as i am sure most reading this do as well) with dozens and dozens of character combos that i really want to play. Not too mention was a victim of the 2nd edition switch to 3.0 which we all lost tons in books as well... lol Anyone else feel this way?
Now i have the opportunity to join a new group (much smaller... 4 people including myself) that is playing 3.5 only (no PF). They are excited about having me join and although I don;t know them well we have a few things in common and think i would get along well with them.
The Problem is I feel a bit guilty about jumping groups... I have made myself clear how i feel about straight PF games but it seems to fall on deaf ears... Trying to play in both would be hard (not undoable) but would mean i would not be DMing my original group anymore as i would spend that time with my new group.
How would i approach my original group and explain this?
I should point out part of my fun in gaming is character creation. I spend hours getting them built to 20th level with all feat/class options and every nuance in detail. I have played over 30 PF characters (and created many more for NPC's) and am just bored with it.
Just seeing if anyone else is having this issue. Most Old School gamers have hundreds if not thousands invested in RP books and etc...
I have been playing with a group of 5-9 players(rotating DM's between 4 of us) for the last 5 years and thankfully although they ordered 4E they hated it, so as a group we decided to give PF a try. We ran a straight PF game and loved the new skill rules/sets and class options (its a great game system) and we decided to add it into our gaming as an upgraded 3.75 D-n-D/PF hybrid games. I did not want to stop using all the resources of 3.5 that i had invested in. This lasted about 6 months and now were to the point where we seldom have a game allowing 3.5.
I am assuming someone stopped the 3.5 stuff due to powercreep. If that is the reason then just say that PC's/NPC's can't go above X in a category. As an example no AC's above 50 at 16th level or no single attack can max out at more than 30 points of damage without a crit.
If the power creep is not an issue then why was the 3.5 stuff banned?
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Plus the classes that I want to play are good, instead of having to fake it with another class.I don't quite understand your statement here...
I like the concept of the paladin and the fighter, but they were terrible in 3.5, in Pathfinder they are great, so I would have to take another class like the cleric or warblade, to create what the fighter and paladin should have been.
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If your suggesting that PF can replicate anything in 3.5... i don;t see it. Here some of the build that i would love to play but never had a chance and I don;t see PF being able to reproduce them without a homebrew rules (which my group never does).
Invisible Blade / Master Thrower - PRC combo
War Hulk / Hulking Hurler - PRC combo
Druid of the Coast (aka... Planar Sheperd)
Argent Fist - Monk/Paly - PRC
Telflammar shadowlord - PRC
just to name a few off the top of my head...
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If the power creep is not an issue then why was the 3.5 stuff banned?
I am not sure... not so muched banned more of a focus on PF (which i enjoy) although i agree it washes out to the same result... no 3.5. We have rules in place if it was a power game or not... like you suggested above (similar to that) that we would nix the ultra power stuff for a more "normal" game.
I do know that most of the others enjoy a more normal PC as I enjoy dips and options but staying well within the limits of normalcy.
I would have told them to give me a good reason to not allow the 3.5 stuff or I might leave the group to one more open with rules. I don't think that is unreasonable. Saying no "just because" seems random and arbitrary to me. It is not like the banning the 3.5 stuff is adding to the game, and those that don't want to use it, can just choose not to.
PS:I would play with the new group, but let them know it is a try out session. I would ask the old group to reinstate the 3.5 material unless they can say how it is disrupting the game. If they did not do it then I would let them know I might leave the group. I am assuming you are friends with group 1 so I would try to be nice about it.
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I would have told them to give me a good reason to not allow the 3.5 stuff or I might leave the group to one more open with rules. I don't think that is unreasonable. Saying no "just because" seems random and arbitrary to me. It is not like the banning the 3.5 stuff is adding to the game, and those that don't want to use it, can just choose not to.
PS:I would play with the new group, but let them know it is a try out session. I would ask the old group to reinstate the 3.5 material unless they can say how it is disrupting the game. If they did not do it then I would let them know I might leave the group. I am assuming you are friends with group 1 so I would try to be nice about it.
I agree and i appreciate the advice.
I can understand where PF only are coming from, it's much more balanced and you don't have too look out for Munchkinism that much.
I had my fun too with 3.5 class-picking, and I miss it too, a bit.
My advice be to let your PF group know that you like delving in the mass of books 3.5 has to offer. Promise them not to munchkin out and ask for an exception to the PF only rule.
If they don't accept, tell them you'll also join another 3.5 only group, and you'll decide later, but until then, you don't have the time to GM.
p.s. Pathfinder has to more Dungeon Masters, no offense.
So here's the thing. I played 3.0/3.5 the whole time it was out. I, too, have a f$!#ton of books and things I wanted to play. 2 years ago when we started playing PF in beta I fell in love with the game again. I am continually accused of being the de facto munchkin in both my gaming groups. And yet, I'm happy and satisfied playing PF core +APG/DSP Psionics and I genuinely never even think or daydream about my old 3.5 stuff. Which is pretty surprising to me.
I really REALLY like archetypes and I think a great deal of the old twerky 5 level PrCs can be replaced by them quite easily. Which is clearly a design choice on the part of Paizo and a wise one.
The new classes in the APG and UM are better than any of the base classes that came out in the complete books or PHB2 (except beguiler, but thats just waiting to be made into a Sorcerer archetype IMO).
So far Paizo has avoided power creep pretty admirably, even to my chagrin. I have faith (which is, if you knew me, a HUGE deal) that their splatbooks won't degenerate into a PC/DM arms race like 3.5 did.
All that said, another of PF's strengths is that you can TOTALLY still use like 90% of that old stuff plopped right into a PF game if you want to.
I am a little puzzled here. I am not sure of what social situation you are in... but I have a pool of friends who are all gamers, but we could never all sit and play in the same game at once, there's way too many of us. And some of us like different games than others, so we'd never all want to play in the same game anyway. If one of us says, "Hey, I'm joining so and so for XRPG. I know it's not your cup of tea, but I wanted to play it," the response is usually, "Great, have fun, see you at dinner next Friday."
So I am not seeing what is preventing you from seeking out the game you want to play, as surely you can still hang out with your other friends at other occasions. If Pathfinder ain't for you, it ain't for you--and frankly, if you're bored with it, that will affect your play style and will be a disservice to your players who enjoy the system.
If it's a matter of your leaving your Pathfinder group leaves them too small a group to play, offer to help find them a replacement.
As for Pathfinder vs. 3.x, if it's that you do like Pathfinder but want to use your 3.x splats---you CAN, if you wanted, convert 3.5 splat classes to Pathfinder. I assume that's not an option for some reason?
Let me start with there is no badwrongfun way of playing DnD, whether it is BECMI -> 4E or anything in between.
I do understand why a group would go Pathfinder only, as I did. Before PF came out, I was running two groups. One was "da boyz" (my son and his friends who were all in their 30's) and the other was "da guyz" (friends of mine in their 50's). Playing 3.5 was an arms race, especially with da boyz, and I have accumulated every splat book out there. When we switched to PF beta, it became PF only, so we could check out the rules. When PF Core came out, I kept the rule of Core only, and added the APG. Now da boyz group has ended, for other reasons, and with UM & UC, I put my foot down, and everyone in da guyz agreed, that is it. No more arms race. Now, it would have been a different story with da boyz, but now I can sell/give all my 3.5 books to the local game store for credit.
-- david
Papa.DRB
ps. If I was you, I would ask the old group to allow the 3.5 stuff in, and if the response was still no, then I would switch because of the way you feel.
I agree that a 3.5/PF hybrid game is the best... but i don;t consider 3.5 worse then PF... I cosider PF a good add to 3.5. I love PF skill rules.
Since PFRPG is a revision of 3e - and a good one - I do think PF is better than 3.5. After all, PFRPG fixed things that were less-than-perfect in 3e.