Use Magic Device with a Bard

[Hebels76]

So, I've always been inkling with creating a bard character who is obsessed with using spells/scrolls from other classes spell lists via the Use Magic Device Skill. I understand most of the mechanics with using the device, but I was wondering if Arcane Spell Failure came into effect here. Since activating a scroll using UMD allows you to "cast it as though it was on your spell list," and since bard spells do not incur the Arcane Spell failure as long as I am not wearing medium or heavy armor, would I be correct in assuming there is no Arcane spell failure for spells activating via scrolls or wands (or other device) as long as the UMD DC is met?

[ImplementorBeast]

I'd be more inclined to say yes, ASF does come into effect - due to the fact the class description specifically states: A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor and use a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.

I'd say anything not on the Bard Spells list would incur spell failure as normal.

For me, using UMD simply means you're 'fooling' the item into activating. The spell itself still has it's own native properties, which are affected by ASF.

Interested in hearing a counterpoint though.

[FarmerBob]

ASF would affect any spell that was a non-bard arcane spell cast from a scroll.

ASF doesn't affect wands, nor does it affect divine spells.

[Red Wullf]

FarmerBob wrote:

ASF would affect any spell that was a non-bard arcane spell cast from a scroll.

ASF doesn't affect wands, nor does it affect divine spells.

Agreed. One can assume "Bard Spells" are specialized versions of the standard spell generated by music, oratory, pantomime, interpretive dance, playing the bongos, or however your bard expresses herself. If the bard is trying to cast "someone else's" spells, she's going to have to mimic the V/S components, which would be described by the spell on the scroll. ASF would kick in as the bard attempts to mimic the delicate gestures.

[Red Wullf]

Roland Deschain wrote:

Interested in hearing a counterpoint though.

I'm not saying you won't get a counterpoint - these are the Paizo rules message boards after all (opinion abounds). But, I'd say any counterpoint is likely to be silly.

My thought is simple, would a Wizard suffer ASF when casting a spell from a scroll? Of course. Then so should the Bard, assuming it's not a "Bard Spell" which RAW says is exempt.

[Bobson]

The relevant quote is "Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance." (from the scrolls section of the magic item section). Since UMD says nothing to negate this line, you suffer spell failure for all arcane scrolls, whether they're on your list or your UMDing them. That's the general rule.

In the specific case, bards (and magi) casting spells of their own class from a scroll obey their class' spell failure mechanics the same way they would if casting the spell normally. Specifically, they don't have to worry about it if their armor is light enough.