| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Character Creation: Take two.
Alright, new character concept loosely built Darkness Isaac from the manga Jackals. Character is meant to be a combat controller with respectable damage output, but focused on keeping the enemy disoriented and CC'd. Replacing my meat shield tank with a more versatile one capable of some deep RP, more than typical barbarian "LOGEN SMASH! LOGEN DRINK! LOGEN SMASH DRUNKENLY!"
Combat Theory: Keep the enemy in place while my group turns it into goop.
Move in Whirlwind/Trip/Disarm/Smack, move back and prevent anyone from getting to the back of the party. HiPS as part of that move action would give me plenty of flat footed AC's to hit and allow me to not be charged into the ground the next round.
Books: Pathfinder only
Human
5 levels of fighter, 2 of shadow dancer
Skill Points: Str: 18 Dex:14 Con: 14 Int: 13 Wis: 10 Cha: 9
Feats:
Fighter
1. Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes
2. Combat Expertise
3. Improved Trip
4. Spring Attack
5. Improved Disarm
Shadow Dancer
6. ---
7. Whirlwind
Later feats: Combat Patrol, Greater Disarm, Body Guard, In Harm's Way
After four levels of Shadowdancer, pop back into Fighter.
Weapons:
Definitely going with a Mithral Breastplate. Might take a Mithral shield and Flail, though a reach weapon with trip/disarm would be really sexy. Combat patrol would allow a massive threat range and armor spikes for the closeness. Do I need Two Weapon Fighting to use armor spikes for close range AoO?
-----
What weapon should I focus in? Should I take the Mobile Fighter Variant? What other feats would go along nicely with this build?
dotted, i'll get back to you.
one consideration is. I don't think HiPs works well or at all with spring attack. I'm not 100 on this vas it's never come I'n our games. but I believe the only way to hide and attack at the same time is the sniper rules that don't work with melee attacks. i seem to recall you cannot otherwise attack the same turn and stealth.
I maybe wrong though.
Combat Theory: Keep the enemy in place while my group turns it into goop.
Move in Whirlwind/Trip/Disarm/Smack, move back and prevent anyone from getting to the back of the party. HiPS as part of that move action would give me plenty of flat footed AC's to hit and allow me to not be charged into the ground the next round.Books: Pathfinder only
Human
5 levels of fighter, 2 of shadow dancer
Skill Points: Str: 18 Dex:14 Con: 14 Int: 13 Wis: 10 Cha: 9Feats:
Fighter
1. Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes
2. Combat Expertise
3. Improved Trip
4. Spring Attack
5. Improved Disarm
Shadow Dancer
6. ---
7. WhirlwindLater feats: Combat Patrol, Greater Disarm, Body Guard, In Harm's Way
After four levels of Shadowdancer, pop back into Fighter.
Your concept of the Fighter with Shadow Dancer is a good one. Four levels of Shadowdancer hits a sweet spot as you get to teleport around and you get a Shadow Companion that is doing 2 touch attacks per round doing no save d6 strength drains per hit while you flank on the other side. You also get a free rogue ability at 3rd level shadowdancer and I recommend picking up Fast Stealth so you can sneak and flank your opponents at your full movement speed.
You may want to drop the Improved Trip feat as it's useless against opponents bigger than you.
Also, seriously consider getting Urban Ranger over Fighter. This gives you 6 skill points per level, full BAB, ability to cast Longstrider spell for hours giving you 40 foot sneak move, a free combat feat choice at 2nd level AND the ability to unlock doors/chests and disable traps (even magical ones) just as well as a rogue. It would make you the ultimate trapsmith / infiltrator while still maintaining your ability to be a frontline fighter.
one consideration is. I don't think HiPs works well or at all with spring attack. I'm not 100 on this vas it's never come I'n our games. but I believe the only way to hide and attack at the same time is the sniper rules that don't work with melee attacks. i seem to recall you cannot otherwise attack the same turn and stealth.
I maybe wrong though.
The way my DM is ruling it, since Spring Attack breaks your movement into two parts you can use Stealth during both movements. Stealth only states that that you have to do it as part of a movement. He did this to us recently with a Rogue/Shadowdancer boss that used whirlwind and a keen falcata. So you can run up activating stealth, attack popping out of stealth, and retreat as another stealth.
Your concept of the Fighter with Shadow Dancer is a good one. Four levels of Shadowdancer hits a sweet spot as you get to teleport around and you get a Shadow Companion that is doing 2 touch attacks per round doing no save d6 strength drains per hit while you flank on the other side. You also get a free rogue ability at 3rd level shadowdancer and I recommend picking up Fast Stealth so you can sneak and flank your opponents at your full movement speed.
You may want to drop the Improved Trip feat as it's useless against opponents bigger than you.
Also, seriously consider getting Urban Ranger over Fighter. This gives you 6 skill points per level, full BAB, ability to cast Longstrider spell for hours giving you 40 foot sneak move, a free combat feat choice at 2nd level AND the ability to unlock doors/chests and disable traps (even magical ones) just as well as a rogue. It would make you the ultimate trapsmith / infiltrator while still maintaining your ability to be a frontline fighter.
Agreed on the Fast Stealth, then one level into Barbarian for that fast movement and take the Mobile Fighter Variant so that by level 20 he'd have a movement speed of 50. That and Barbarian Rage plus the Stand Still feat will cover his uselessness against not being able to trip large creatures.
I thought of going ranger initially as well, but I think the 15 levels of fighter will better suit the character. We already have a rogue who wholly enjoys being our face and trapsmith (especially against the kobolds that are suicide trapping us currently...) and nothing in Urban Ranger archetype really stands out to me compared to the Mobile Fighter. Bonus to trip and disarm, no armor check penalties, tons of feats to abuse and since he's human with a +1 INT, and going into Shadowdancer he's going to get plenty of skill points to play with.
Since we're running a mercenary group in a large city we rarely find ourselves fighting non humanoids, making combat maneuvers really synergize with the other two front line fighters (Urban Ranger and an Inquisitor). Trips and Disarms may not maximize damage, but they'll prevent a lot more than simply eating hits and trying to keep aggro. Improved trip with flanking will be especially brutal with how hard they hit, Keen Falcion and Falcatas.
Big question at the moment is reach weapon or 1h with shield, and which ones?
Agreed on the Fast Stealth, then one level into Barbarian for that fast movement and take the Mobile Fighter Variant so that by level 20 he'd have a movement speed of 50. That and Barbarian Rage plus the Stand Still feat will cover...
Well fighter is probably a really good choice then given that you have a rogue in the party. Keep in mind that you are going to need to pick up Skill Focus: UMD as one of your feats. You're probably wondering why. The reason is that once you pick up your Shadow Companion at 3rd level Shadowdancer, you're going to have to keep it alive. If you don't, you'll lose a level and won't be able to get a new shadow companion for 30 days. This means you need to heal your shadow with negative energy (in other words - a wand of inflict light wounds for 750 gp). While your shadow will be safe from mundane attacks, it won't be safe from attacks from spells, spell like abilities and magic weapons which can quickly whipe out your shadow's very modest hit point total. To use an Inflict Light Wounds wand on your shadow requires a DC20 UMD check. So, you'll need to max out UMD with the Skill Focus feat and pick up a Circlet of Persuasion which gives +3 to all Charisma skill checks. You might also want to increase your charisma from 9 to 10. By 8th level, this will give you a UMD skill of 14 which means you are healing successfully with the wand 70% of the time. Not great, but better than letting your shadow die.
To clarify what I said earlier about tripping, you won't be tripping any creature 2 categories larger than you (eg Huge) so it isn't all bad. If you want a really good tripping weapon, then you want the guisarme. There’s a lot to like about this weapon. It’s a reach and trip weapon and its damage is 2d4 with 20/x3 multiplier which means it will combine well with your Combat Reflexes feat for tripping attacks of opportunity for anything that comes within 10 feet of you. You'll also want to pick up Greater Trip feat if you can squeeze it in. Don't worry if creatures get inside your guard as often you can just step back 5 feet and still full attack. Even if you can't, you can just drop the guisarme as a free action, draw another weapon as a move action and then attack as a standard action all without incurring an attack of opportunity. Your tripping ability will also be enhanced every time your shadow makes a successful strength drain attack as this will drop your opponent's CMD way down against your trip attempt.
Hope some of this advice is helpful.
a reach weapon will do better than sword and board IMHO. Good advantages: less feats to do well, avoid AOO, hit further from the shadows, and lots of good special weapons.
you cannot use whirlwind with spring attack. it's a full round action the most you can move is 5 feet. this doesn't even fit the splitting your move up example.
Paladin into shadowdancer actually is also very goon move.
Well fighter is probably a really good choice then given that you have a rogue in the party. Keep in mind that you are going to need to pick up Skill Focus: UMD as one of your feats. You're probably wondering why. The reason is that once you pick up your Shadow Companion at 3rd level Shadowdancer, you're going to have to keep it alive. If you don't, you'll lose a level and won't be able to get a new shadow companion for 30 days. This means you need to heal your shadow with negative energy (in other words - a wand of inflict light wounds for 750 gp). While your shadow will be safe from mundane attacks, it won't be safe from attacks from spells, spell like abilities and magic weapons which can quickly whipe out your shadow's very modest hit point total. To use an Inflict Light Wounds wand on your shadow requires a DC20 UMD check. So, you'll need to max out UMD with the Skill Focus feat and pick up a Circlet of Persuasion which gives +3 to all Charisma skill checks. You might also want to increase your charisma from 9 to 10. By 8th level, this will give you a UMD skill of 14 which means you are healing successfully with the wand 70% of the time. Not great, but better than letting your shadow die.
To clarify what I said earlier about tripping, you won't be tripping any creature 2 categories larger than you (eg Huge) so it isn't all bad. If you want a really good tripping weapon, then you want the guisarme. There’s a lot to like about this weapon. It’s a reach and trip weapon and its damage is 2d4 with 20/x3 multiplier which means it will combine well with your Combat Reflexes feat for tripping attacks of opportunity for anything that comes within 10 feet of you. You'll also want to pick up Greater Trip feat if you can squeeze it in. Don't...
Ah, I completely forgot about the Shadow lowering the CMD with his strength damage. That's fantastic! Guisarme also sounds like a great idea as well, Greater Trip and using the reach to disarm, dirty trick etc. without inuring the AoO's. The said Rogue is also really into UMD, and plans to be the Shadow's back up curer if need be.
you cannot use whirlwind with spring attack. it's a full round action the most you can move is 5 feet. this doesn't even fit the splitting your move up example.
I actually planned to position myself into a group with spring attack/hide, then whirlwind and 5 foot/hide the next turn. And later, Rapid Attack would allow me a move and a full attack, though at my second highest bonus.
Guisarme and armor spikes