| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
grants a +2 enhancement to Int. Does this in any way add to your skill ranks? Or is it just a +2 to int and thats it?
grants a +2 enhancement to Int. Does this in any way add to your skill ranks? Or is it just a +2 to int and thats it?
+2 to Int would raise your modifier by 1. So yes, it would retroactively increase your skill ranks by 1*HD.
This Ioun stone doesn't stack with a Headband of Int, though, as both are Enhancement bonuses.
grants a +2 enhancement to Int. Does this in any way add to your skill ranks? Or is it just a +2 to int and thats it?+2 to Int would raise your modifier by 1. So yes, it would retroactively increase your skill ranks by 1*HD.
This Ioun stone doesn't stack with a Headband of Int, though, as both are Enhancement bonuses.
Rocking a sorcerer with this one so no headband. I am using hero labs but i cant seem to get the extra skill points showing. Do i need to add it as a permanent adjustment? Character level 5
I doubt that ioun stones are meant to give permanent bonuses (only temporary in my games), but that's not really made clear in the rules.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Magic items give temporary bonuses, which convert to permanent bonuses after 24 hours of continuous use. I would imagine that it's tricky sleeping with a stone whirling around your head, thumping into the pillow every so often. But placed in a Wayfinder, it seems more reasonable.
grants a +2 enhancement to Int. Does this in any way add to your skill ranks? Or is it just a +2 to int and thats it?+2 to Int would raise your modifier by 1. So yes, it would retroactively increase your skill ranks by 1*HD.
Holy canundrums!
I'm on the fence about this... Not that I'm contradicting your point of view, but it just doesn't seem ok with me. I'm ok with the +1 bonus to all intelligence-associated skills, but the 1 per level extra point/rank... Hmmm.
So when you activate the Ioun Stone, it retroactively grants you an extra 1*HD (say 5 cause the character is at level 5). And then you can place these extra 5 points/ranks in any skill you want. Use the skill, then deactivate the Ioun Stone. A little later on, when facing another type of problem, re-activate the Ioun Stone and place the extra 5 points/ranks in the skill needed at the present moment.
It just doesn't sound right.
Ultradan
grants a +2 enhancement to Int. Does this in any way add to your skill ranks? Or is it just a +2 to int and thats it?+2 to Int would raise your modifier by 1. So yes, it would retroactively increase your skill ranks by 1*HD.Holy canundrums!
I'm on the fence about this... Not that I'm contradicting your point of view, but it just doesn't seem ok with me. I'm ok with the +1 bonus to all intelligence-associated skills, but the 1 per level extra point/rank... Hmmm.
So when you activate the Ioun Stone, it retroactively grants you an extra 1*HD (say 5 cause the character is at level 5). And then you can place these extra 5 points/ranks in any skill you want. Use the skill, then deactivate the Ioun Stone. A little later on, when facing another type of problem, re-activate the Ioun Stone and place the extra 5 points/ranks in the skill needed at the present moment.
It just doesn't sound right.
Ultradan
In HL activating the stone just gives me a +2 to init. No skill points added.
Ultradan -- so you don't let people gain their extra hit points from a Con raising item?
It just doesn't sound right.
Then I suggest you reread the section of the book on permanent vs temporary stat increases. It explicitly says permanent ones generate retroactive benefits.
The issue here is a copy/paste issue from 3.5. The Ioun Stone should have been updated the same way the headbands were. It should come with a hard-wired skill that you get with it. That's how I handle it in game, and it works fine.
As to orbiting around your head, remember, it can orbit your head without hitting the pillow. It orbits 2 inches above your face if you are lying on your back, or two inches above your ear if on your side.
It just doesn't sound right.
Then I suggest you reread the section of the book on permanent vs temporary stat increases. It explicitly says permanent ones generate retroactive benefits.
The issue here is a copy/paste issue from 3.5. The Ioun Stone should have been updated the same way the headbands were. It should come with a hard-wired skill that you get with it. That's how I handle it in game, and it works fine.
As to orbiting around your head, remember, it can orbit your head without hitting the pillow. It orbits 2 inches above your face if you are lying on your back, or two inches above your ear if on your side.
so after 24 hours it should grant me the 5 skill points? As a sorcerer that is the only reason i took the item. Nobody else in the party wanted it.
grants a +2 enhancement to Int. Does this in any way add to your skill ranks? Or is it just a +2 to int and thats it?+2 to Int would raise your modifier by 1. So yes, it would retroactively increase your skill ranks by 1*HD.Holy canundrums!
I'm on the fence about this... Not that I'm contradicting your point of view, but it just doesn't seem ok with me. I'm ok with the +1 bonus to all intelligence-associated skills, but the 1 per level extra point/rank... Hmmm.
So when you activate the Ioun Stone, it retroactively grants you an extra 1*HD (say 5 cause the character is at level 5). And then you can place these extra 5 points/ranks in any skill you want. Use the skill, then deactivate the Ioun Stone. A little later on, when facing another type of problem, re-activate the Ioun Stone and place the extra 5 points/ranks in the skill needed at the present moment.
It just doesn't sound right.
Ultradan
First off, you don't get the extra skill points until 24 hours later, so you can't just deactivate and reactivate.
Second, I think most sane GMs would place the same restriction on it as the headband of int comes with, even though the stone doesn't specify:
A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.
So instead of giving you ranks you can spend however you want, it spends the ranks on maxing out a particular skill that is chosen at item creation (or multiple, in the case of Ioun Stones that give +4 or +6).
Holy canundrums!I'm on the fence about this... Not that I'm contradicting your point of view, but it just doesn't seem ok with me. I'm ok with the +1 bonus to all intelligence-associated skills, but the 1 per level extra point/rank... Hmmm.
So when you activate the Ioun Stone, it retroactively grants you an extra 1*HD (say 5 cause the character is at level 5). And then you can place these extra 5 points/ranks in any skill you want. Use the skill, then deactivate the Ioun Stone. A little later on, when facing another type of problem, re-activate the Ioun Stone and place the extra 5 points/ranks in the skill needed at the present moment.
It just doesn't sound right.
Ultradan
First off...You're not supposed to use items in a way that they become a revolving door for messing with your skill points. Second, activating/deactivating this Ioun stone is no different (and just as easy) and putting on and taking off a Headband...so what's the difference?
You just have to play smart.
"Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed."
Emphasis mine. Have the players record the distribution of those skill points and force distribution back to those skills should they deactivate the stone.
so after 24 hours it should grant me the 5 skill points? As a sorcerer that is the only reason i took the item. Nobody else in the party wanted it.
If your sorcerer is level 5, then yes.
Quote:
A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.
So instead of giving you ranks you can spend however you want, it spends the ranks on maxing out a particular skill that is chosen at item creation (or multiple, in the case of Ioun Stones that give +4 or +6).
The headband's special increase isn't a replacement to the boost you get from Int to skill ranks. It's in addition to it.
For every +2 Int on the headband, you get 1 more modifier, so 1 more skill rank to distribute per level. On top of that, for every +2 Int on the headband there is one skill which gains ranks equal to your Hit Dice, but those bonus "ranks" do not add to existing ranks if you already have existing ranks. For example, if you are a level 7 paladin with 7 ranks in Diplomacy, the headband having Diplomacy as its bonus skill wouldn't do much for you. But if you had a headband with a bonus skill of Stealth when you have 0/1 ranks in it, the headband's 7 ranks would replace your 0/1.
Ioun stones' bonuses stack with one another, a specific exception to the general rule. So multiple scarlet-and-blue spheres circling (or implanted) each provide a particular skill after 24 hours. [/QUOTE
The thing is.. if i click it to activate it in herolab, all it does is raise my init by 2. No skill points. Is that right or should it grant me skill points after 24 hours? Totally confused.
The thing is.. if i click it to activate it in herolab, all it does is raise my init by 2. No skill points. Is that right or should it grant me skill points after 24 hours? Totally confused.
This is why I don't use software... the rules are rather complex and the odds of coding for every possibility correctly are nigh impossible.
This is why I don't use software... the rules are rather complex and the odds of coding for every possibility correctly are nigh impossible.
The thing is.. if i click it to activate it in herolab, all it does is raise my init by 2. No skill points. Is that right or should it grant me skill points after 24 hours? Totally confused.
I can add it as a permanent adjustment and it gives me the skill points. I just want to make sure this is right before sumbiting to my DM.
I can add it as a permanent adjustment and it gives me the skill points. I just want to make sure this is right before sumbiting to my DM.
Just track which skill(s) you dump those ranks in to, in case the stone is destroyed or deactivated.
Just track which skill(s) you dump those ranks in to, in case the stone is destroyed or deactivated.
Ok. So after 24 hours i get 5 retro skill points and need to track those incase its destroyed. Simple enough. I was just wondering why activating it in HL didnt add the skill points.
so after 24 hours it should grant me the 5 skill points? As a sorcerer that is the only reason i took the item. Nobody else in the party wanted it.
It just doesn't sound right.
Then I suggest you reread the section of the book on permanent vs temporary stat increases. It explicitly says permanent ones generate retroactive benefits.
The issue here is a copy/paste issue from 3.5. The Ioun Stone should have been updated the same way the headbands were. It should come with a hard-wired skill that you get with it. That's how I handle it in game, and it works fine.
As to orbiting around your head, remember, it can orbit your head without hitting the pillow. It orbits 2 inches above your face if you are lying on your back, or two inches above your ear if on your side.
Yes, but it should come with a skill attached. I'd ask your GM which skill is attached to it, and show him the text under permanent vs temporary bonuses and the headband section of the magic items.
It is always possible he will rule that ioun stones cannot be worn 24/7, and thus don't grant permanent bonuses. If he does, then you get any skill points at all. The GM is the final arbiter, but I'd say having the ioun stone have a skill which it maxes out is the simplest and most logical method of dealing with it (especially if you put it in a wayfinder, which can be worn 24/7).
Just track which skill(s) you dump those ranks in to, in case the stone is destroyed or deactivated.Ok. So after 24 hours i get 5 retro skill points and need to track those incase its destroyed. Simple enough. I was just wondering why activating it in HL didnt add the skill points.
Probably because it wasn't coded to. Remember, check with your GM. More than likely, if you get the points, it's going to be hardwired to a skill, just like the headbands are.
Just track which skill(s) you dump those ranks in to, in case the stone is destroyed or deactivated.Ok. So after 24 hours i get 5 retro skill points and need to track those incase its destroyed. Simple enough. I was just wondering why activating it in HL didnt add the skill points.
Clearly it was because you didn't wait 24 hours :-p
Yes, but it should come with a skill attached. I'd ask your GM which skill is attached to it, and show him the text under permanent vs temporary bonuses and the headband section of the magic items.It is always possible he will rule that ioun stones cannot be worn 24/7, and thus don't grant permanent bonuses. If he does, then you get any skill points at all. The GM is the final arbiter, but I'd say having the ioun stone have a skill which it maxes out is the simplest and most logical method of dealing with it (especially if you put it in a wayfinder, which can be worn 24/7).
Not disagreeing that in the end it's up to the GM, but...
A stone can orbit your head even while you sleep... And if it's really a concern, you can slip the stone into a Wayfinder and keep it in your pocket.
I also don't feel that the Ioun stone should lock you to a particular skill. If you look up the expanded chart of Ioun stones, you'll see that the Cracked versions of the +AbilityScore stones offer a bonus to one particular skill. I'd argue that the full version of the stone grants you the Int bonus and the flexibility to choose the skill distribution.
Clearly it was because you didn't want 24 hours :-pYea im sure that is it... You would think with Int 19 i would have caught that. This one is defective and i want a refund!
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
I also don't feel that the Ioun stone should lock you to a particular skill. If you look up the expanded chart of Ioun stones, you'll see that the Cracked versions of the +AbilityScore stones offer a bonus to one particular skill. I'd argue that the full version of the stone grants you the Int bonus and the flexibility to choose the skill distribution.
How often would you get to decide that? At will? "Hey, it's a trap; I think I'll shift my floating skill ranks to Perception and Disable Device"?
For magical headbands, the skills are hard-wired into the items. If someone with an Ioun stone could shift around her skill ranks, that would make the item far more powerful.
I also don't feel that the Ioun stone should lock you to a particular skill. If you look up the expanded chart of Ioun stones, you'll see that the Cracked versions of the +AbilityScore stones offer a bonus to one particular skill. I'd argue that the full version of the stone grants you the Int bonus and the flexibility to choose the skill distribution.How often would you get to decide that? At will? "Hey, it's a trap; I think I'll shift my floating skill ranks to Perception and Disable Device"?
For magical headbands, the skills are hard-wired into the items. If someone with an Ioun stone could shift around her skill ranks, that would make the item far more powerful.
I dont think i would be that cheesy with it. Once the skills are picked.. thats it.
I also don't feel that the Ioun stone should lock you to a particular skill. If you look up the expanded chart of Ioun stones, you'll see that the Cracked versions of the +AbilityScore stones offer a bonus to one particular skill. I'd argue that the full version of the stone grants you the Int bonus and the flexibility to choose the skill distribution.
Actually, that's more of an argument that they should have a hardwired skill, the bonus being granted by the cracked +INT stone would be whatever skill it originally was hardwired to.
How often would you get to decide that? At will? "Hey, it's a trap; I think I'll shift my floating skill ranks to Perception and Disable Device"?
For magical headbands, the skills are hard-wired into the items. If someone with an Ioun stone could shift around her skill ranks, that would make the item far more powerful.
1. You don't get the skill ranks until the item has been active for 24 hours
2. I already stated earlier that you should record which skills you placed the points into so that if the stone is deactivated/reactivated or destroyed, the same skills get the ranks.3. For the headbands, the skills aren't just hard-wired into the item. As indicated above, you still get the skill point increase based on the modifier increase. As an added bonus, you get your HD in skill ranks to a set skill (one skill per +2 Int on the headband), but those ranks don't add to existing ranks, they can only replace them.
Actually, that's more of an argument that they should have a hardwired skill, the bonus being granted by the cracked +INT stone would be whatever skill it originally was hardwired to.
I also don't feel that the Ioun stone should lock you to a particular skill. If you look up the expanded chart of Ioun stones, you'll see that the Cracked versions of the +AbilityScore stones offer a bonus to one particular skill. I'd argue that the full version of the stone grants you the Int bonus and the flexibility to choose the skill distribution.
I disagree. I feel that the Cracked stone is a reduced form of the non-Cracked version. If the Cracked stone locks you in to one skill, the logical leap for me is that the non-Cracked stone gives you the flexibility to choose.
Yay gray area!
3. For the headbands, the skills aren't just hard-wired into the item. As indicated above, you still get the skill point increase based on the modifier increase. As an added bonus, you get your HD in skill ranks to a set skill (one skill per +2 Int on the headband), but those ranks don't add to existing ranks, they can only replace them.
This sounds like you are saying this :
Headband of Vast Intelligence +2 (Stealth)
After 24 hours, level 7 person has :
Stealth (7) (From Headband)
+7 more skill points to spend as he wants.
If that is what you are saying, that is wrong. You get only the ranks that go into Stealth from the headband. The headband grants HD skill points, and all of them are hard-wire to be spent on Stealth. There are no points you can put into some other skill from the headband.
Yay gray area!
*sigh*
I hate to say it, but FAQ the OP's post. I think it's obvious what was intended, but, apparently we need to have the FAQ expanded. *sigh*
3. For the headbands, the skills aren't just hard-wired into the item. As indicated above, you still get the skill point increase based on the modifier increase. As an added bonus, you get your HD in skill ranks to a set skill (one skill per +2 Int on the headband), but those ranks don't add to existing ranks, they can only replace them.This sounds like you are saying this :
Headband of Vast Intelligence +2 (Stealth)
After 24 hours, level 7 person has :
Stealth (7) (From Headband)
+7 more skill points to spend as he wants.
If that is what you are saying, that is wrong. You get only the ranks that go into Stealth from the headband. The headband grants HD skill points, and all of them are hard-wire to be spent on Stealth. There are no points you can put into some other skill from the headband.
I don't recall seeing anywhere in the item text that it says that it ignores the standard ability score increase rules in lieu of the single skill boost.
"Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed."
"All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks, all of them."
I don't recall seeing anywhere in the item text that it says that it ignores the standard ability score increase rules in lieu of the single skill boost."Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics as appropriate. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed."
"All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks, all of them."
*sigh* I wish they'd get around to the FAQ updates, this comes up just about once every other week.
It's easy to see why in 3.5 the Intelligence boosting items didn't mess with your skill points, ain't it? :-)
The headband of vast intelligence grants you an Intelligence bonus. We wanted it to also grant skill points, since that's what increased intelligence scores do. What we DIDN'T want was a situation where you get an item that grants an INT bonus and put it on your head and get to pick where those extra skill ranks go there and then... because then what's keeping you from putting those ranks in to, say, Appraise, but then when you get to a locked door you can just take the item off and then put it back on your head and say, "Now those skill ranks are adding to my Disable Device!" Makes the item WAY too versatile.
So the solution was to "hard code" the skill ranks into each item. That way, when you find an INT boosting head band, you not only know what the skill ranks it grants are, but when you take it off and put it back on or pass it around to your friends, it stays the same. It removes the whole "What do I want to be good at today?" problem. And that DOES mean that sometimes you'll find an INT boosting item that overlaps with skill ranks you already have, but that's fine with me since you're still enjoying all the other benefits of the increased INT score just like you did in 3.5 (which, remember, doesn't grant ANY skill ranks for INT boosters).
I'll make sure Jason knows that this'll be something we should add to the FAQ. It's not really errata, since it's not really a correction. It's just something that needs more explanation.
EDIT: I'm not sure if excluding bonus languages from the things the headband grants was an oversight or intentional. I think it might have been intentional, but I'm not sure.
"All bonuses are retroactive when an ability score increases, be they bonuses to damage, to skill ranks, to hit points, to saves, to skill checks, all of them."
This applies, generally, to the situations where you get a bonus to int from leveling up (going from 11 to 12 grants you HD extra skill points the next time you level). Same for Tomes or Wishes granting inherent bonuses.
'Permanent' temporary bonuses (from items) generally grant HD skill ranks in a fixed skill.
~stuff~
Hey...you wouldn't happen to have a Crowbar of Foot-Prying I can use on my mouth, would you?
Thanks for the links and for clarifying that.
~stuff~Hey...you wouldn't happen to have a Crowbar of Foot-Prying I can use on my mouth, would you?
Thanks for the links and for clarifying that.
LOL
Sorry, I only have one good one left, and I need it for all the times I shove my own size 11's into my size 10 mouth. :)
A nice addition to the rules on this would be that you get refunded skill ranks in the skill that the headband boosts... Since they don't stack, and you can't distribute the points as you see fit, even having 1 rank in a "headband skill" is a wasted point. For classes that only get 2 ranks per level, 1 wasted point is huge.
A nice addition to the rules on this would be that you get refunded skill ranks in the skill that the headband boosts... Since they don't stack, and you can't distribute the points as you see fit, even having 1 rank in a "headband skill" is a wasted point. For classes that only get 2 ranks per level, 1 wasted point is huge.
They aren't wasted, if someone sunders your headband, or you lose it, then you can fall back on those skill ranks you put in. Besides, what happens when you replace your +2 (Stealth) headband with a +4 (Knowledge(Planes), Linguistics) headband? Especially if you're the rogue who's been using that stealth a lot. And you have no ranks in K(P) or Linguistics? Oops...
A nice addition to the rules on this would be that you get refunded skill ranks in the skill that the headband boosts... Since they don't stack, and you can't distribute the points as you see fit, even having 1 rank in a "headband skill" is a wasted point. For classes that only get 2 ranks per level, 1 wasted point is huge.They aren't wasted, if someone sunders your headband, or you lose it, then you can fall back on those skill ranks you put in. Besides, what happens when you replace your +2 (Stealth) headband with a +4 (Knowledge(Planes), Linguistics) headband? Especially if you're the rogue who's been using that stealth a lot. And you have no ranks in K(P) or Linguistics? Oops...
Hm... I suppose that would be a valid argument. Works for me!