Summon Monster... Roll Hitpoints?

[Scrogz]

When you summon monsters as per the Summon Monster 1, 2, 3, etc.... spells do you roll hitpoints or just use the Bestiary default?

[Ævux]

In our group.. we just ended up using the default. Which meant that the creatures I summoned couldn't take a stiff wind.

Personally I'd summon them and have them be like a PC, first level max, then roll for the rest.

[Scrogz]

We just started a new game as our plast group suffered a TPK due to stubborn role playing. Cost me a character I was having a great time playing... BAH

I want to roll and use the same rules we use for PC's. Max at first, your choice after of either rolling 2 dice and taking the highest or roll one die until you get at least 1/2 if max.

Just looking for opinions on what others do.

[Hama]

Only PC classes get max hitpoints at 1st level.
And if youi are going to summon things during the game, decide what it is going to be and roll for hitpoints before the game. Come a little early, if the host allows it and do it. Thus you ave a witness and you are protected from your monsters dying after a few hits.

[Sentack]

From what I recall, summoned creatures have racial hit dice. Racial hit dice are rolled, according to what the rules in the Beastiary state (apparently) but, often it's an accepted table policy to take the average instead. Often for simplicity sake.

[wraithstrike]

Rolling would get very time consuming. People have always taken what is in the book when I was in a game.

[Scrogz]

I don't think it would be real time consuming if the person who is doing the summoning (me) is organized and ready to go. We are low level right now so it's only a couple of dice. Might be more of a challenge later.

I am one of those players that is always prepared and hate to waste game time on silly things but this seems like a good way to add some flavor.

I figured on rolling hitpoints while other players are taking their actions and being ready to go on mine.

[hogarth]

I prefer to never roll hit points, period. But I'd certainly never roll hit points for a creature that's only going to last one encounter.

[Tilnar]

Scrogz wrote:

When you summon monsters as per the Summon Monster 1, 2, 3, etc.... spells do you roll hitpoints or just use the Bestiary default?

Technically, as they have non-PC hit dice, you should roll each level -- the bestiary default *is* the average of the dice roll -- which most people take as a quick shorthand. (Also, it prevents you from getting a dreaded 1 on the hp roll when summoning something with 1 or 2 HD)

[Gorbacz]

What's the point of rolling HP for something that lasts 3 rounds max?

[Sentack]

Gorbacz wrote:

What's the point of rolling HP for something that lasts 3 rounds max?

Because that's what the rules state you do. Although we all know it's a silly idea to do so. That being said, almost no table I've heard of, would do such a thing because it's an unnecessary delay and possible point of frustration.

So while the rules technically state one way, it sounds like everyone tends to go another. Still, I'm not 100% sure the roll method is correct, considering that even the Beastiary uses averages.

[Aldin]

I've always used the average. At lower levels it hardly ever matters. At higher levels it can keep you from rolling lots of dice that tend toward the average anyway. If the GM gave any indication he'd prefer die rolls I'd take 'em, but it just hasn't been an issue.

[wraithstrike]

Monster Introduction wrote:

hp: The creature's hit points, followed by its Hit Dice (including modifiers from Constitution, favored class levels, creature type modifiers, and the Toughness feat). Creatures with PC class levels receive maximum hit points for their first HD, but all other HD rolls are assumed to be average. Fast healing and regeneration values, if any, follow the creature's HD.

[Some call me Tim]

Scrogz wrote:

I don't think it would be real time consuming if the person who is doing the summoning (me) is organized and ready to go. We are low level right now so it's only a couple of dice.

That's a mighty big IF. I find that because summoners have so many things to think about they are seldom, if ever, that organized and ready. Even if they are, in general, summoner-types turns tend to take much longer than other players' turns as it is; anything that reduces it should be welcomed. So, that's why every group I've ever played with uses the average for all monster hit dice.

Scrogz wrote:

I want to roll and use the same rules we use for PC's. Max at first, your choice after of either rolling 2 dice and taking the highest or roll one die until you get at least 1/2 if max.

Now, this tips the scale in the favor of a summoner. One of the disadvantages of summoning is that the creatures summoned aren't exceptionally hardy. Most don't seem to last more that one or two solid hits.

[Tilnar]

Some call me Tim wrote:

Scrogz wrote:

I want to roll and use the same rules we use for PC's. Max at first, your choice after of either rolling 2 dice and taking the highest or roll one die until you get at least 1/2 if max.

Now, this tips the scale in the favor of a summoner. One of the disadvantages of summoning is that the creatures summoned aren't exceptionally hardy. Most don't seem to last more that one or two solid hits.

I agree -- this would certainly make feats like Augment Summoning (or various Wizard specialization powers) far less helpful.