Ultimate-Cyber-Mecha-Manga-Magic?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

The Exchange

Is it just me, or do the Construct Armour and Construct Limb (on pages 114 and 115 of Ultimate Magic) strike anyone else as ever-so-slightly mecha and cybernetic -ish?

If a party of five adventurers all get their own colour-coded Construct Armour and form magi-mecha sentai team alpha! or something, can they merge into an even bigger suit of Construct Armour? '... and I'll form the head!'

... Just sayin' is all... ;)


ProfPotts wrote:

Is it just me, or do the Construct Armour and Construct Limb (on pages 114 and 115 of Ultimate Magic) strike anyone else as ever-so-slightly mecha and cybernetic -ish?

If a party of five adventurers all get their own colour-coded Construct Armour and form magi-mecha sentai team alpha! or something, can they merge into an even bigger suit of Construct Armour? '... and I'll form the head!'

... Just sayin' is all... ;)

You got you're zord in my fantasy setting.


Do it as a synthesist summoner! Then you're a guy within a demon within a robot armour wielding a metal snake as weapon.

Now I'll have to play that. For Numeria!


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The modification that lets you wear your contruct like armor does specify that it has to be the same size category that you are. This prevents Voltron/Power Ranger Shenanigans.. though still allows you to use it like Power Armor. Which in my opinion is actually quite cool. Keep in mind, that with the price that anything like that costs, it far outweighs it's usefulness.


Gloom wrote:
The modification that lets you wear your contruct like armor does specify that it has to be the same size category that you are. This prevents Voltron/Power Ranger Shenanigans.. though still allows you to use it like Power Armor. Which in my opinion is actually quite cool. Keep in mind, that with the price that anything like that costs, it far outweighs it's usefulness.

Tell me you're kidding... you realize how f'ing powerful construct armour is!? It's god's gift to clerics. Let's try a basic example. Take a caratyd column, and add the construct armour add-on. Sale cost = 10000 base + 2000 Materials + 35000 construct Armour =47000. Manufacturing Cost = 5000+2000+17500 = 24500. You need to manufacture it anyways for it work for you... That's quite doable as a 12th level character.

That gets you a breastplate that gives you :
5/- DR.

Shatter Weapons(Ex) wrote:
Whenever a character strikes a caryatid column with a weapon (magical or non-magical), the weapon takes 3d6 points of damage. Apply the weapon’s hardness normally. Weapons that take damage in excess of half of their total hit points (after factoring in their hardness) gain the broken quality. This ability does not apply to monks (or other creatures) using a natural weapon.
Immunity to Magic(Ex) wrote:
A caryatid column is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature. A transmute rock to mud spell deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level to a caryatid column, with no saving throw. Transmute mud to rock heals any lost hit points. A stone to flesh spell does not actually change the column’s structure but negates its damage reduction and immunity to magic for 1 full round.
Construct Traits wrote:
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).Immunity to bleed, disease, death effects, necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.Not subject to ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain, or nonlethal damage.Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).Constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

Swarmed by shadows - you don't care: construct traits. Poison gas trap, the same. Fireballs : Immunity to Magic. somewhere between 36 and 50 bonus HP on top

Futhermore, you can cast Magic Vestment on it, so you're not even losing out on enhancement bonuses.

Now start thinking about high end constructs. Note that an admantine golem with the construct armour enchancement (shrunk 2 steps to medium size:Huge > Large > Medium) has a construction cost of 62500 base (250000/2/2) + 25000 materials (100000/2/2) + 17500 construct armour enhancement = 115000. Quite practical at 18th level. It gives fast healing 10, DR15/epic, indestructible, magic immunity, 7d10+20 bonus HP...

And this can get uglier if your DM allows custom constructs or 3.5 material.


pad300 wrote:
Futhermore, you can cast Magic Vestment on it, so you're not even losing out on enhancement bonuses.

Nope. Even though it's a harmless spell, Magic Vestment allows Spell Resistance, and thus the construct armor is immune to it.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Also, I'm not sure if you gain all of the Construct's abilities. I'm pretty sure that you do not and you simply use them as a buffer against damage and that's about it.

If you really wanted to argue mechanics, you can alter the Constructs' AC by enhancing it's armor straight off the bat. Whether or not you gained the bonus is up to your DM though, as it specifically states it counts as a normal breastplate.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Quote:
The modification that lets you wear your contruct like armor does specify that it has to be the same size category that you are. This prevents Voltron/Power Ranger Shenanigans...

Although that's nothing more than a 'requirement' which, as we all know, in Pathfinder is just a +5 to the DC to ignore (it even re-states this under 'Building and Modifying Constructs' on page 111 of Ultimate Magic). So, gnome in Colossal sized Construct Armour? Ooh... that'll be a +5 DC... harsh... ;)

The question of what the heck Contruct Armour actually does for you is a little trickier, it seems. On the one had the last paragraph states...

Ultimate Magic page 115 wrote:
'... The contruct's wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armour counts as breastplate armour for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and the chance of arcane spell failure.'

... On the other hand, earlier on it states...

Ultimate Magic page 114 - 115 wrote:
'... So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer first target the construct...'

Which, to me, prompts two important questions:

Firstly - why do you need to know the AC or Dex bonus to AC for the thing if it always gets attacked first? Unless that's just there for when the Construct Armour is 'killed' yet you're still stuck in it?

Secondly - what constitutes 'the control of the creator'? If you're 'controlling' it, does that mean you can use/direct all its own abilities? You retain your 'base attacks' - does that mean 'attacks based on BAB' or 'all the attacks you can do' (meaning, in effect, that it doesn't restrict any of your attacks)... or does it mean you can't use the Construct Armour's own attacks... in which case - what's the point of donning (for example) an 'Iron (Man) Golem Suit' if you're just making the Iron Golem worse by spending more time, money, and effort on creating it, and combining it with your own abilities..?

Construct Limb, on the other hand, counts as a heavy steel shield, retains any melee attacks it has, and the creator can use any of its special abilities 'as if she were the construct'.

By 'retaining' its melee attacks, does that mean that when wearing a Construct Limb the creator gets those attacks in addition to his normal BAB, etc., based number of attacks?

It's far from clear (to me at least) how these things work, but it seems as though in the case of Construct Armour you don't add the construct's attacks to your own, but you 'control' it so can direct those attacks in place of your own (but using your own bonuses / penalties to do so); while with a Construct Limb you get the construct's attacks as well as your own (a bit like having a Dancing weapon released). How does that seem?

If the Contruct Armour does let you swing away with its own attacks, then those caster classes which can cast in Medium armour (like higher level Magus characters, or Bard Arcane Duellists, or various Cleric types) are suddenly looking at a new favourite Item Crafting Feat me'thinks... ;)


pad300 wrote:
Tell me you're kidding... you realize how f'ing powerful construct armour is!? It's god's gift to clerics.

Well, they're clerics. They're doing the gods' work. That sort of work has its benefits.


ProfPotts wrote:


The question of what the heck Contruct Armour actually does for you is a little trickier, it seems. On the one had the last paragraph states...

Ultimate Magic page 115 wrote:
'... The contruct's wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armour counts as breastplate armour for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and the chance of arcane spell failure.'

... On the other hand, earlier on it states...

Ultimate Magic page 114 - 115 wrote:
'... So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer first target the construct...'

Which, to me, prompts two important questions:

Firstly - why do you need to know the AC or Dex bonus to AC for the thing if it always gets attacked first? Unless that's just there for when the Construct Armour is 'killed' yet you're still stuck in it?

Secondly - what constitutes 'the control of the creator'? If you're 'controlling' it, does that mean you can use/direct all its own abilities? You retain your 'base attacks' - does that mean 'attacks based on BAB' or 'all the attacks you can do' (meaning, in effect, that it doesn't restrict any of your attacks)... or does it mean you can't use the Construct Armour's own attacks... in which case - what's the point of donning (for example) an 'Iron (Man) Golem Suit' if you're just making the Iron Golem worse by spending more time, money, and...

I read construct armor as ablative layer of "meat"... The combined Character-golem gets the character's AC (with a breastplate for armour and whatever other modifiers). It has the character's saves. It has the character's normal actions at normal bonuses (including any armour proficiency penalties from the breastplate). When hit/targeted/affected by something, the effect hits the golem, and only gets through to the PC if golem is reduced to zero hp.

So an archer shoots you and hits for 17 pts of damage - Knock of 10 for the golem's DR, and take 7 off the golem's hp. If the arrow was poisoned, meh, golem doesn't care. If the golem only had 4 hp left, that's 3 through, and yep, you care! Hope you make that saving throw...

Walked into a fireball trap for 39 pts of damage - golem has magic immunity and fireball is subject to spell resistance: bounce.

Hostile bard uses bardic music (fascinate) on you. This is not subject to magic immunity (being (su)), but your golem still has construct traits going for it and therefore is immune to mind-affecting effects. You are not fascinated.

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