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Basically, I have a player who wants to play a magus. He found a character seeming to wield 2 Elven Curve Blades, and he spent the past 4 or so hours working on photoshop with it. He took the second blade off, and put a spell in its place.
My basic question, it it seems he can take the (S) version of the weapon, and it would become a 1 handed weapon, down from 2 handed. Would he also have to take the -2 for using an item not sized for him, technically, or would he be ok?
Would you think it would be ok to just let him do it, or would that be potentially too much? Its basically an exotic longsword, with an admittedly higher crit range. Also from a balance perspective, I'm dissalowing the Magus's spellstrike ability to use a spell that has been altered by a metamagic feat. I just don't really want that in my game. I also think I'll disallow keen or improved crit to increase the overal crit range of the spell. It'll only effect the weapon itself.
Thoughts, and overall opinion plz?
As usual its GMs decision. The following are just some thoughts and should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Firstly using incorrectly sized weapons always incurs the -2 penalty. I would really weigh up the pros and cons before allowing this, in case of hidden cheese. I just don't see the benefit in this one unless I am missing something. It is similar to a rapier except its exotic, you will take additional -2 to attacks and its 1d8 instead of a rapiers 1d6. Not overwhelmingly powerful in fact I think this is actually a decrease in power.
Why not allow metamagic with spellstrike? All metamagic changes the level of the spell used and if the magus has access to that higher spell slot, why not?
Keen and improved crit do not stack as I recall. A crit range can only be increased once. I don't see a reason for not allowing it.
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As was answered in the other thread, this is legal. I assume he either is elven or took XWP: Elven Curved Blade. Like any two-handed weapon, one size down will be a one-handed weapon, and he will have a -2 to hit with it.
Note, of course, that this is not optimal: he's at -2 to hit with a 1d8 18-20x2 weapon. There exist I think two exotic one-handed weapons with those stats that do not have the -2 to hit.
Also from a balance perspective, I'm dissalowing the Magus's spellstrike ability to use a spell that has been altered by a metamagic feat.That's fine, but my impression of the Magus is not that he is a powerhouse in need of a nerf. However, I don't know the power level of your game. I will point out that the Magus only gets to 6th level spells, over the course of the game, and anything he applies metamagic too, he is really paying for.
I just don't really want that in my game. I also think I'll disallow keen or improved crit to increase the overal crit range of the spell. It'll only effect the weapon itself.I haven't tested with this, this strikes me as it could be a legit concern. However, again, what spells in question are you concerned about him having a 30% critical threat chance with? Do note that the magus has to actually hit (not just a melee touch hit) with a weapon to get this stuff to fire off.
I'm just not sure if the magus needs these nerfs. Do you nerf or restrict pure casters as well? Other melee? Summoners?
Note that it would be optimal for your player to run a different weapon such as a scimitar. If you are eliminating the ability to use spellstrike with extra critical spaces, he is specifically going to do best with the Falcata if he is blowing a feat on it.
M'kay, first off thanks for all the replies, i really appriciate it ^^
Now, the big reasons I was thinking on some of these house rules...
First off, I WAS going to allow the spell to crit of the natural crit range of the weapon. I was simply stating I wouldn't allow it to benefit from the expanded crit range of keened or improved crit.
Second, the big reason I said no metamagic feats. Basically, the campaign is starting at lvl 12, so he'll have access to quite a few things already, plenty of feats, plenty of equipment. The big reason on feats, is I see a lot of potential for cheese. I don't want someone do do the following...
+3 Keen Rapiar, 1d6 (15x20 x2), cast true strike ( if your gonna meta the next spell, you'll true strike to MAKE SURE THE DAMN THING HITS!), Spellstrike your "maximixed, intensified, Shocking Grasp", then Spell Combat your full round attack. Costs you a 5th lvl spell slot.
Now first, i'm not sure if certain rules make this occur in a different order, and if it'll in the end turn out ok, but as it stands...
30% crit and confirm, a 10d6, or 60 dmg attack, criting for a total of 120 dmg. Now regardless, you will almost always hit with the auto 60 dmg. I haven't done ALL the math, but the potential 120 seems kinda scary, and with no saving throws, just an attack roll, there won't be any reducing the overall dmg...
Maybe there are other cheese things that can be done, and as I look at it, i question myself... But for now, I think i prefer no metamagic, and to use the items natural crit range. Maybe explaining myself may help a little, but I'd like an overall opinion as well, heh.
Second, the big reason I said no metamagic feats. Basically, the campaign is starting at lvl 12, so he'll have access to quite a few things already, plenty of feats, plenty of equipment. The big reason on feats, is I see a lot of potential for cheese. I don't want someone do do the following...
+3 Keen Rapiar, 1d6 (15x20 x2), cast true strike ( if your gonna meta the next spell, you'll true strike to MAKE SURE THE DAMN THING HITS!), Spellstrike your "maximixed, intensified, Shocking Grasp", then Spell Combat your full round attack. Costs you a 5th lvl spell slot.
Now first, i'm not sure if certain rules make this occur in a different order, and if it'll in the end turn out ok, but as it stands...
30% crit and confirm, a 10d6, or 60 dmg attack, criting for a total of 120 dmg. Now regardless, you will almost always hit with the auto 60 dmg. I haven't done ALL the math, but the potential 120 seems kinda scary, and with no saving throws, just an attack roll, there won't be any reducing the overall dmg...
Maybe there are other cheese things that can be done, and as I look at it, i question myself... But for now, I think i prefer no metamagic, and to use the items natural crit range. Maybe explaining myself may help a little, but I'd like an overall opinion as well, heh.
At 12th level, the Magus can't cast 5th level spells yet, so he can't both maximize and intensify shocking grasp. If he wanted to drop intensify, he'd be at 30 damage from the spell, and he could do it 3+bonus times per day, at the expense of casting several other really useful spells (greater invisiblity, black tentacles, stoneskin, intensified vampiric touch...). If he wanted to drop maximize, it'd be doing 10d6 damage as a 2nd level spell, 5+bonus times per day. Which is strong, but no worse than an invisible rogue getting 6d6 sneak attack on each of 4 attacks in a full round attack.
Plus, if he's casting true strike, that's a separate standard action he has to take on the previous turn. So you're looking at two turns worth of damage being delivered on one turn. And he can still roll a 1. Or, he could make a full attack on the previous turn and then cast true strike with spell combat, but he's then taking the TWF penalty to his full attack without getting any extra damage for it. Plus, holding a charge of true strike means you can't take an Attack of Opportunity without wasting it.
On top of all that, a 12th level fighter can have six attacks (Greater TWF), with a +4 to hit and damage (on top of the +3 from higher BAB), Power attack, and probably a higher strength mod. It wouldn't even be hard to get him up into the 60 DPR range, and he can do that all day long, with no setup required.
I think the Magus is an interesting choice, it can be quite good, but it certainly isn't overpowered or in need of nerfing.
There's also the fact that he has to spend his previous round casting true strike.
Ok, so hold on here.
Spellstrike your "maximixed, intensified, Shocking Grasp", then Spell Combat your full round attack. Costs you a 5th lvl spell slot.What is intensify? Is that something that lets the 5d6 spell become 10d6? and costs two levels? Where is this feat from?
It's a metamagic feat in the APG.
Here
I think the Magus is an interesting choice, it can be quite good, but it certainly isn't overpowered or in need of nerfing.
Me too.
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True Strike does actually account for blur and things like that. It ignores most miss chances (except for blink, I think).
But what you are seeing is a high-level character putting most of his energy into one blow. Of course it'll be powerful! And if he's saved that much energy for the Big Bad at the end, then he deserves to get this shot in.
And if he does this early on in the day, then what's he going to do for the rest of the day? Not pull out more strikes like that one, that's for sure!
And regarding the small Elvish Curve Blade, I'd try to coax him into using the stats for a scimitar. It's basically a small elvish curve blade.
If concerned about the capabilities of a Magus, why not do some mock combat trials with various enemies. A Magus has to put himself into the threat zone to make the most of his capabilities. Also, keep in mind, in addition to spells, the arcane pool is another limited resource the magus has to manage as well.
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If concerned about the capabilities of a Magus, why not do some mock combat trials with various enemies. A Magus has to put himself into the threat zone to make the most of his capabilities. Also, keep in mind, in addition to spells, the arcane pool is another limited resource the magus has to manage as well.
Hehe, well thank you all, very much for all the input. Just played a game, and have to say, didn't really have much of a chance to see the badassness of the Magus.. Most of that is kinda my fault of course, but I'll let you be the judge...
Basically, continuing from where I left my campaign last, it had just started, everyone had gotten together, and agreed to journey with and protect an archeological expedition thats nearly a month away from the major trade city, and home of the Adventurers Guild.
They got together, talked, developed how there characters' behaved and RP'd, got to meet some of the NPCs. I got to better flesh out my own RP, finding the NPC's own personalities, and such.
All goes well, and then.. AMBUSH.. on the open road, while conversing with each other, the caravan is stopped by a carriage parked in the middle of the Highway. The player's make their way to the front (failing to see the no name bandits from the GMG, who had taken 20, and plenty of time to hide from view, and who were also 200 feet away from the caravan, for a total DC of 42 to find them, which no one rolled) Out from behind the carriage come 10 men, 7 of them simple, ugly muscle, while the final 3 in the back looking to be better trained, and of higher intellect. The leader, a Bandit Lord call's out, and says he'll let everyone live, if only they'll leave the purse of the caravan, and their valuables on the ground.
From here, thinking they are complete pushovers, and a simple encounter, my Magus hastes himself, and takes off at his increased speed to meet the Bandit Lord, head on. I fudged a little bit, he was taking a big risk coming right into the middle of all of them. Only had 5 attacks of opportunity on him, and i didn't worry too much about moving through all those squares.... I should have :P The other individual's at his side, were a Highwayman, from the same section as the Bandit Lord, and a Sellsword from the Mercenaries section in the GMG. Needless to say, he did manage to stay "up" for 2 rounds, before I dropped, and luckily, didn't kill him. The combat continued on for a while, about 5-6 rounds I think, until all but the Bandit Lord was up. And right before he was about to make his escape, the Sorcerer in the group used a Persistent Phantasmal Killer on my poor Lord, and well... Needless to say :P
So, my biggest mistake, is I really failed to relay the full entirety of what the opposition looked like from a distance. The simple fact that the hired muscle (who i simply used the Turnkeys from the Dungeons section) were all in +1 Half-Plate, and the others behind them seemed far more competent and most likely, far better equipped would have shown how much of a jump from no challenge, to "i'd better think about this a little more". That was my biggest mistake. All together, the encounter was a CR 13, and the players, who had not had a chance to really play there characters yet, had a rather... Hard time with the encounter overall, hehe... My second biggest mistake, I guess, was throwing them into such a hard encounter right off the bat. It was fun, but I nearly killed 2 players, right out of the gate... Not a great way to start a campaign in my opinion...
So yeah, ANYWAY... overall, it was fun, and I could not at all gauge the capacity of the Magus. So... I may just let him be, without worrying about any what I talked about earlier, to see, overall, how it ends up turning out. I'll worry about things, and rule them accordingly when I come to them, hehe...
PS, how exactly would a Persistent Phantasmal Killer work? If he makes his first will, but fails his second, and he makes his Fort, will he have to reroll AGAIN, or would the Persistent Metamagic feat only work on the first roll?
My second biggest mistake, I guess, was throwing them into such a hard encounter right off the bat. It was fun, but I nearly killed 2 players, right out of the gate... Not a great way to start a campaign in my opinion...
I'd consider that a great start, provided it turns out these weren't just random bandits on the road. Maybe they're working for a BBEG who takes the loss of his troops personally. Maybe they're actually from a rebellion the PCs can put down (or join!). In one campaign I ran, I had a CR 5 creature destroying some bandits while my 1st or 2nd level party watched from hiding. They escaped it, but they were terrified of that creature ever after, even after they'd way outleveled it. In my current Kingmaker game, they decided to attack the bandit camp at night, with little scouting or plan. So all the bandits were home, even if they were asleep. It nearly killed several of them, and now they have a better respect for the bandits and tactics.
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Hehe, glad I didn't get flamed or anything for my misgivings... Was the first real combat (for DnD anyway) i'd ever ran...
Overall, i think everyone enjoyed it, and I think i did manage to make them see combat can be a lot more lethal than in other games..
(especially since i was highly anal on character creation, giving them "ONLY" 25 points, or High Fantasy CC, rather than the standard 4d6 drop the lowest, reroll ones, reroll anything lower than 10, and roll 7 sets, drop the lowest, that our groups have gotten very accustomed to in recent years. As well as regulating the starting money as the book recommended, IE 25% on weapons, 25% on armor and defensive items, 25% on magic items, 15% on consumables, and 10% on gear, so no one came in with some ungodly BS hehe..)
But yeah, it was more than just a regular bandit raid. The PC's had just exited one of the major trade cities of the country, not even 6 hours out on a busy highway. A lot more going on then that ;)