My players are a bit behind the level curve in the AP I'm running for the moment, so I'm looking to insert a few encounters. I'd like to do something a little different than "You run into a wandering monster and fight" so I thought a chase would be fun. Looks like the Chase Cards will be coming out a month too late for my purposes, so I'll have to figure some out on my own. I have some questions about using the chase rules:
1. The rules say, "When assigning obstacles, it's best to have the DCs of both obstacles on a card be within 5 points of each other, but never identical -- this forces participants to make tactical choices." But then the example chase laid out on p. 233 has DCs 10 and even 15 points from each other, as do the sample cards from the chase deck. (Um, I guess that's not really a question, just a point of confusion. The text says a 5-point spread is the rule, but virtually all the examples use a 10-point spread.)
2. Is it okay to not tell the players which skills are required and what the DC is for each obstacle? It seems like that would lead to the players not paying attention to the actual obstacle (i.e., Steeply-Sloped Roof vs. Crumbling Rooftop) and just comparing the mechanics ("Well, I can't fail that Climb DC even if I roll a 1 so I'll pick that one.") Seems like I ought to describe the scene to them and make them pick which way to go without them knowing exactly how hard it's going to be.
3. "A character who wants to attempt to move three cards during his turn can do so by taking a full-round action. That character must overcome both obstacles on the card he is leaving." But if he succeeds at both, he completely skips the obstacles on the next card and goes to the third? Or does he actually move forward three cards like he rolled a 3 in a board game and skip over two obstacles?
4. "A character who becomes mired must spend another full-round action becoming unmired and effectively loses his next turn in the chase." Does he become unmired automatically by spending the full-round action, or does he have to roll to beat the DCs again?
5. Is it okay to give XP for "succeeding" in a chase? Would you award XPs equal to defeating a CR [party level] creature?
*bump* back up the list now that it's daytime in the US. Anyone who's run a chase want to give me some pointers? :)
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My players are a bit behind the level curve in the AP I'm running for the moment, so I'm looking to insert a few encounters. I'd like to do something a little different than "You run into a wandering monster and fight" so I thought a chase would be fun. Looks like the Chase Cards will be coming out a month too late for my purposes, so I'll have to figure some out on my own. I have some questions about using the chase rules:
1. The rules say, "When assigning obstacles, it's best to have the DCs of both obstacles on a card be within 5 points of each other, but never identical -- this forces participants to make tactical choices." But then the example chase laid out on p. 233 has DCs 10 and even 15 points from each other, as do the sample cards from the chase deck. (Um, I guess that's not really a question, just a point of confusion. The text says a 5-point spread is the rule, but virtually all the examples use a 10-point spread.)
Try to think of them as "guidelines."
2. Is it okay to not tell the players which skills are required and what the DC is for each obstacle? It seems like that would lead to the players not paying attention to the actual obstacle (i.e., Steeply-Sloped Roof vs. Crumbling Rooftop) and just comparing the mechanics ("Well, I can't fail that Climb DC even if I roll a 1 so I'll pick that one.") Seems like I ought to describe the scene to them and make them pick which way to go without them knowing exactly how hard it's going to be.
really a matter of play style. I do not like using cards. I don't see a point in having them. I break down the chase into scenes (each card would be a scene) and then describe it. The PCs then decide how to overcome it. I make the DC based upon their actions, so even I have no idea ahead of time what the DC will be.
3. "A character who wants to attempt to move three cards during his turn can do so by taking a full-round action. That character must overcome both obstacles on the card he is leaving." But if he succeeds at both, he completely skips the obstacles on the next card and goes to the third? Or does he actually move forward three cards like he rolled a 3 in a board game and skip over two obstacles?
seems like they are essentially combining the first two cards into one full action. Fail and they are hosed. Succeed and they advance to the third card. To leave the third card they will need to use an action next turn.
4. "A character who becomes mired must spend another full-round action becoming unmired and effectively loses his next turn in the chase." Does he become unmired automatically by spending the full-round action, or does he have to roll to beat the DCs again?
I think the expenditure of the action unmires the character. Though if I were running it I would require a reroll against the DC that mired the PC in the first place.
5. Is it okay to give XP for "succeeding" in a chase? Would you award XPs equal to defeating a CR [party level] creature?
Yes certainly! You can award XP for a ROLEplaying encounter as well. Combat is not the only way to earn XP. ANY time there is a challenge to be overcome, either with combat, skills, or roleplaying, you should award XP.
Okay, I have to admit I haven't run a chase using chase cards, but I have run chases in the past very similarly, where you give a scene and let the players figure out how to traverse it. I would even suggest since this is a set piece chase, that you not use the cards even if you had them. I think I will relegate the cards for use when an unexpected chase pops up.
The one downside to the cards is that it may take players away from the scene and turn the chase into a board game. I don't think I would really want to have the players see the cards, because they will pick one of the two 'solutions.'
The greatest thing about role-playing with a human GM is be allowed to think outside the box. Those two options are merely the two most obvious solutions. A rogue character might want to pick the lock on the door and run through the house. A barbarian might just bash down the door instead. A more cerebral character might look for a ladder.
It's a useful exercise to prepare a flow chart that works like the chase cards but it doesn't have to be so linear or black/white. The last chase I ran like this followed two basic tracks. Characters could either go out the window and follow the thief on the roof top or go down the stairs and chase the thief from ground level. Each track had skill checks that were better suited for those likely to take it (rooftops had more acrobatic checks, balance and jump; while the streets had more brute force checks, like Strength checks and intimidate to get through the crowds). The two tracks also crossed at key points.
I also had a couple of points where the person in front could spend an action to try and slow the pursuers. Such as cutting the tightrope between buildings or knocking over the fruit vendors cart. That creates a new obstacle, but lets the pursuers close in.
The best pieces of advice are have fun with the chase and don't be surprised by anything the characters might try. If the players trying something you didn't expect, just go with it and allow them to try.
1. As Krome wrote, its just a guideline and even the developers break the guidelines (Although I'm a bit surprised that not one pair meets the guidelines.)
2. You don't have to tell the players the exact DC, but you should make sure that they have an idea of relative difficulty. In the first example, one is DC 10, trivial, vs. a difficult DC 25. Say something along the the lines of: "the cluttered rooftop doesn't look too treacherous, but finding hand holds on the smooth wall seems doubtful."
3. I would think you would advance to the fourth card skipping over the two intervening cards. You're using a full-round action to try and get ahead, risking failure. If they only skipped one obstacle they would be the same place as someone that used two separate move actions to advance and didn't risk getting mired.
4. I would say once he becomes unmired he must attempt the same obstacles again. The rules don't mention advancing a card.
5. Definitely award XP for completing a chase. The exact amount depends on the difficulty of the chase.
I suggestion using "Page 42" to help you eyeball the DCs.
http://gneech.com/rpg/page-42-for-pathfinder-revisited/
The basic idea behind the chase rules is you have one easy option and one harder option. This way characters that may have one skill but not the other can still participate. You could even extend the concept further to include three or more different skills.
After running a few chase scenes at different levels, this is what I have found.
1. While the DCs should be no less than 5 DC apart, having it be as much as 10 or 15 is ok, provided that it's not such a big difference that it is obvious to everyone which option to take. I have also had the DCs be exactly the same but from 2 very different options (Like Diplomacy DC 20 to through a crowd to Reflex DC 20 to avoid being trampled by it). The point made here is to have the two options that require the players to see which is providing them with a better chance of success (i.e. the DC minus the appropriate modifier equals the small number needed on a d20).
2. Personally, I let the players see the DCs of each card as they enter it, thus most of the cards are turned face down at the start. The characters are not going to be doing a chase scene blind or confused (or at least I hope not) so it is safe to assume that as they are running, they are paying attention to most, if not all of their environment. If you are going to have a 'hidden' DC, make sure the other DC is high enough that at least some of the players are going to gamble on it.
3. This is part of the chase rules that I don't use. What I do use instead is that depending on the choice made, the 'next' card can be one of two different branches. Makes for a more complicated flow-chart but is definitely worth it.
4. Again, don't use it.
Something else to consider:
1. Don't be limited to skills and saves for the checks. Use combat maneuvers (Bull Rush, Reposition, etc) too.
2. When factoring the modifier based on speed, do not do a blanket modifier for the whole chase. If the cards use things like Climb, Swim or Acrobatics for walking on narrow surfaces, remember that one's base movement rate is halved (or quartered). For this reason, I make sure that every player has their climb and swim speed listed. This makes things like having a natural climb or swim speed important for chase scenes, as does the Ledge Walker ability.
3. One thing not covered in Chase scenes is the dead sprint. This is how I factor it: a) Unlike other chase cards, dead sprint has a much longer distance. b) The distance determines the DC for a Strength check (usually Distance / 10', round down). This makes the DC usually very high. c) Determine your running speed. The movement modifier is is +/-2 for every 30' difference from the base (usually 120'). d) If you fail, you can retry next round, but the DC for you (and just you) is reduced to the new distance / 10. (i.e. subtract the (running rate / 10) from the DC, usually -12).