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OK. I am trying to get this straight rules wise. For example lets take a animal companion Snake Constrictor maxed out with the following feats.
Male Snake, Constrictor
NN Large Animal
Init +6; Senses Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +13
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DEFENSE
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AC 30, touch 15, flat-footed 24. . (+6 Dex, -1 size, +15 natural)
hp 112 (+32)
Fort +12, Ref +16, Will +6
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft., Climbing (20 feet), Swimming (20 feet)
Melee Bite (Snake, Constrictor) +21 (1d6+15/20/x2) and
. . Constrict (1 extra at -5) (Snake, Constrictor) +21 (1 extra at -5) (1d8+15/20/x2)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
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STATISTICS
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Str 30, Dex 22, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 2
Base Atk +12; CMB +23 (+27 Grappling); CMD 39 (41 vs. Grapple)
Feats Eldritch Claws, Greater Grapple, Improved Grapple, Improved Natural Attack: Bite (Snake, Constrictor), Improved Natural Attack: Constrict (1 extra at -5) (Snake, Constrictor), Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Vital Strike, Vital Strike
Tricks Attack [Trick], Attack [Trick], Attack Any Target [Trick], Combat Riding [Trick], Come [Trick], Defend [Trick], Down [Trick], Fetch [Trick], Guard [Trick], Heel [Trick], Perform [Trick], Seek [Trick], Stay [Trick], Track [Trick], Work [Trick]
Skills Acrobatics +16, Climb +18, Fly +4, Perception +13, Stealth +2, Swim +18
Languages
SQ Attack Any Target [Trick], Combat Riding [Trick], Devotion +4 (Ex), Evasion (Ex), Fetch [Trick], Hero Points (1), Improved Evasion (Ex), Multiattack / Extra Attack, Perform [Trick], Seek [Trick], Stay [Trick], Track [Trick], Work [Trick]
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Attack Any Target [Trick] The animal will attack any creature on command.
Climbing (20 feet) You have a Climb speed.
Combat Riding [Trick] The animal has been trained to bear a rider into combat.
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 Morale bonus on Will Saves vs. Enchantments.
Eldritch Claws Your natural weapons are considered both magic and silver for purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Fetch [Trick] The animal will get a specific object.
Greater Grapple +2 to grapple, maintaining a grapple is a move action.
Improved Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save; half on failed save.
Improved Grapple You grapple at +2, with no attacks of opportunity allowed.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Multiattack / Extra Attack Multiattack or second attack with primary weapon at a -5 penalty.
Perform [Trick] The animal will perform tricks.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Seek [Trick] The animal moves into an area and looks around for anything that is obviously alive or animate.
Stay [Trick] The animal will stay where it is.
Swimming (20 feet) You have a Swim speed.
Track [Trick] The animal will track a scent.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Work [Trick] The animal pulls or pushes a medium or heavy load.
Grab
If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself.
A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).
Creatures with grab receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
Unless otherwise noted, grab works only against opponents no larger than the same size category as the creature. If the creature can use grab on sizes other than the default, this is noted in the creature’s Special Attacks line.
Constrict
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.
Format: constrict (1d8+6); Location: Special Attacks.
Greater Grapple
Maintaining a grapple is second nature to you.
Prerequisites: Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +6, Dex 13.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple.
Normal: Maintaining a grapple is a standard action.
So on round 1 Snake bites opponent and successfully grapples it doing 1d6+15 damage for the bite and 1d8+15 damage for the constrict.
Round 2 Snake then maintains grapple as move action and succeeds and chooses to damage opponent for 1d6+15 damage for the bite and 1d8+15 damage for the constrict.Then gets a second grapple action which is successful since the first was and does 1d6+15 damage for the bite and 1d8+15 damage for the constrict.
Does that look right or am I misreading things?
OK. I am trying to get this straight rules wise. For example lets take a animal companion Snake Constrictor maxed out with the following feats.
** spoiler omitted **...
It has to make a second grapple check to do the damage again using Greater Grapple.
Just because the first succeeded doesn't mean the second one does automatically.
As for whether succeeding at the first one and then failing at the second one ends the grapple, that's another debat (and has probably already been discussed somewhere else on the boards).
As for whether succeeding at the first one and then failing at the second one ends the grapple, that's another debat (and has probably already been discussed somewhere else on the boards).
It specifically states in the description of Greater Grapple that you only have to succeed at one of the two grapple attempts to maintain the hold. Passing one and failing the other does not free the grappled target, regardless of order.
It's a bit foggy, but I would venture to say that making a second grapple attempt at no cost and then getting the second constrict damage and grapple check natural attack damage is not what's intended.
I mean, that's what you're looking for, right? To have your snake constrict twice in a round with two successful grapple checks?
It's really going to depend on your interpretation of "a successful grapple check". Does succeeding twice make the creature "extra grappled"?
One thing I noticed: the "deals damage" part of the grapple check states
[quote d20pfsrd.com]Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
By RAW, that would not allow you to deal natural attack damage to the creature grappled (but does not disclude constrict damage). (I wouldn't rule it that way, I would let the "natural attack" damage on the successful greater grapple check as a move action.)
Now, what you COULD do, and it's a bit riskier, is you could have the snake make its grapple check as a move action, drop the creature as a free action, make an attack as a standard action, which still gives you the free grapple check, with auto constrict damage.
Trust me, that's plenty brutal without the freebies.
Not to burst your bubble here, but can an animal w/ only 2 int even take most of these feats?
Not to burst your bubble here, but can an animal w/ only 2 int even take most of these feats?But a animal companion with a 3 Int can take any feat it qualifies for.
Agreed, but your stat block says Int 2. A snake starts off with Int 1, remember, so you need to bump it twice before it can take unusual feats.
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Agreed, but your stat block says Int 2. A snake starts off with 1 int, remember, so you need to bump it twice before it can take unusual feats.Not to burst your bubble here, but can an animal w/ only 2 int even take most of these feats?But a animal companion with a 3 Int can take any feat it qualifies for.
Minor discrepancy.
Agreed, but your stat block says Int 2. A snake starts off with 1 int, remember, so you need to bump it twice before it can take unusual feats.Minor discrepancy.
Yes and no -- the snake can only get 3 Int starting at 8 HD. So it can take non-standard feats at HD 9, 11, 13 and 15. But you have 6 nonstandard feats listed. Presumably you'd cut Vital Strike/Improved Vital Strike for two other feats (maybe Weapon Focus [bite] and Power Attack).
[...continued from above]
So the earliest a druid could have a snake companion with the Greater Grapple feat is level 16. While that could be useful in some cases (e.g. versus humanoid enemies), many CR 16+ creatures have fairly impressive CMDs.
Ancient black dragon: CMD 45
Horned devil: CMD 44
Ice linnorm: CMD 56 (!)
Marilith: CMD 42
Even with a +5 amulet of mighty fists, that's nothing to sneeze at for the snake.