Bull-rush bonuses


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Aside from feats (and, obviously, strength and size), what things will boost a bull-rush?


Charging, inspire courage bardic performance, Spells [bless, haste, true strike, good hope, moment of prescience, divine favor, invisibility(+2 and no dex to CMD)], flanking, higher ground (charging down a hill...), improved/greater feint (no dex to CMD), strength surge rage power.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I would also point out that Burlap (if this question is for him) has more than enough TPA to be buying potions of Bull's Strength and whatnot.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

What Majuba said...

Also, although I doubt it corresponds to RAI, the RAW of Bullrush also says ´WHEN done as part of a Charge, the Bullrush happens in place of the melee attack´. ´In place of melee attack´ is the keyword used in every other maneuver to indicate that you can use another WEAPON to ´deliver´ the maneuver, and can use it´s bonuses. (although the FAQ conflicts with this for Trip , saying weapon enhancement bonuses, weapon training, etc, don´t apply to Non-Trip Weapon Attacks... even though NOTHING in RAW comes close to suggesting such a distinction. Perhaps they are planning to Errata Trip/Trip Weapon to actually convey that distinction, though).

But using current RAW, I don´t see why you can´t use weapon bonuses to deliver a Bullrush (and in fact, imagine using a Reach Weapon: the weapon´s Reach IS the closest valid square to make the charge attack from, and thus you MUST be using the Weapon to deliver the Bullrush. that issue is mixed up with various problems with Charge in general) Some weapons could well be perfectly appropriate and non-visual-immersion-breaking (e.g. Spiked Shield), but others of course could be problematic (e.g. Whip). ...So I advice not to take this too far, and realize that even though I´ve reported this ages ago with no Errata action from Paizo, it seems like something they COULD Errata into nothingness.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quandary wrote:
...for Trip , saying weapon enhancement bonuses, weapon training, etc, don´t apply to Non-Trip Weapon Attacks... even though NOTHING in RAW comes close to suggesting such a distinction.

Well, there's this:

The CR wrote:
Trip: You can use a trip weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.

So if the Trip weapon quality grants the ability to use said weapon to make a trip attack, it seems reasonable to conclude that you could not do so with a non-Trip weapon. (Otherwise, what's the point of spelling it out in the Trip Property description?)


Besides the fact that assuming A=/=B and A can do X, does NOT imply B cannot do X,
since A and B may in fact differ in other ways (SUCH AS THE DROPPING WEAPON CLAUSE GIVEN),
the FAQ directly deals with this and actually says ANY WEAPON *CAN* DELIVER A TRIP,
they just don´t benefit from Weapon Enhancement Bonuses or Weapon-Specific Bonuses (e.g. Wpn Focus) unless they have the Trip Quality.

That category of bonuses is NOWHERE mentioned in connection with Trip OR Trip Weapons, nor is there any reason to think weapon-specific attack bonuses shouldn´t apply to all attacks you make with that weapon (e.g. non-Trip Quality Reach Weapon) just because you are making a Trip Attack with that weapon... The wording isn´t any different for Trip compared to Disarm, yet there is no such FAQ for Disarm saying weapon-specific bonuses don´t apply. Like I said, the FAQ doesn´t correspond to the RAW, and likely indicates a future Errata on this issue - Paizo doesn´t issue Errata on the fly, and has to wait until a new printing (though in other cases they do indicate that a topic WILL be Errata´d).

Anyways, that isn´t the controversial part, because there is a FAQ spelling it out, even if it doesn´t correspond to RAW at this moment. Only the wierd, Charge-conditional ´in place of melee attack´ wording on Bullrush is somewhat questionable (IMHO).

(FYI, James Jacobs had previously posted a different opinoin on Trip / TRip Weapon that said that non-Trip Weapons couldn´t Trip - and either stealth-granted Unarmed Strike the Trip Quality, or posited some sort of vector-less Trip attack... he never clarified - but if that opinion ever had any weight, it is now superseded by the official FAQ. James Jacobs doesn´t usually address rules questions from a rigorous RAW standpoint, so asking him isn´t the best idea if you want authoritative answers. In this case, the FAQ obviously doesn´t correspond to RAW, but since it was written by a rules developer, which James isn´t, we can assume they are aware of the issue and will probably Errata the RAW to match the FAQ)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Not sure it was necessary to yell, buddy.

EDIT: Also, could you link that FAQ page for me? I've taken a shine to combat maneuvers lately, so it'd be good for me to read it.

Liberty's Edge

Jiggy wrote:
I would also point out that Burlap (if this question is for him) has more than enough TPA to be buying potions of Bull's Strength and whatnot.

Actually this is for a new character I'm cooking up.

Top goal is thwarting pounce at 12th level while not devoting a crapload of feats toward it.


Yeah, I think Unexpected Strike / Come and Get Me in combo with Knockback are awesome for negating enemies´ actions when they try to attack you. Barbarian only (rather, Rage Power-only), obviously.

------------------

@Jiggy: You need to find the product page for Pathfinder Core Rules, I click thru the ´Pathfinder(R)´ heading at the top, then click on the Core Rules itself... You want the page where you can actually click ´purchase´ on the book itself. Between the description and the discussion, there is a small bar where ´discussion´ is one ´tab´ next to another, ´FAQ´. FAQ is what you want. Apparently it´s in such a ´hidden´/non-obvious place because there isn´t very much yet, and Paizo wants to get it more together before they publicize it... Same for why they don´t really announce when stuff is added to it. Other products, like APG I believe, have similar FAQs.

Liberty's Edge

Nothing wrong with four levels of barb IMO. Anything that stymies pounce cheese is gold.


FAQ

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Bull-rush bonuses All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions