the thing you seem to be forgetting is Druids ate full casters. this means they are. iablevat /ALL/ levels.
your assumption that only shapes that have pounce are viable honestly is wrong. turning I go a t Rex and swallowing peoplevwhole with your colossal + bite due to the strong jaw spell after you fly behind the enemy caster all while having full casti g..
I don't seeva downside
I played a high-level druid in a 3.5 game (pre-wild shape change) and he was a monster once buffed up. Sadly, many of our combats were over in a round or two so it often wasn't even worth it to wild shape and buff up. But that's when it was nice to be able to fall back into caster mode.
High-level druids have tons of options available to them. They can be casters, they can wild shape into a ton of forms (don't just focus on animals, remember to consider elementals and plants, too) which, as stated above, can be a bookkeeping nightmare. Pick some favorites and keep them up-to-date.
Druids can also be small armies amongst themselves, what with animal companions, cohorts (if you take leadership), treant guardians, shambling mound guardians, etc. Add in to that their powerful summoning abilities and you can put a large number of combatants into play as a high level druid.
I recently went through an exercise to build a high-level druid NPC. PC druids would be even better, in nearly all cases.
Honestly, if I find the right game (and get a chance to play rather than run), I'd like to try out the PF druid as a PC. I think it's a great class.
oh you know I never. noticed they don't actually have the spells on theirblist. but again where is the downside ofbturning into an allosaurus? which coincidentally get pounce and are huge. the fact that you get this with full casting...
Yeah, you think your Lion shape is really really better
until you get stunned by a Druid in Ankylosaurus form using their WIS as DC stat.
(which is the weird part about Polymorph, which otherwise relies on actual physical stats)
(brilliant energy is a good wpn enhancement if you want to focus on WIS and not phys stats, but use tactics like that)
Like Mojo said, big single damage like T-Rex can rock with Vital Strike or Whirlwind Attack, not to mention ruling for Anti-Caster Disruption against even the best Defensive Casters... You don´t even need to STR-optimize to do so. Threat Area is way better than Lions as well... So you can get nice big AoO´s while really focusing on Full Casting.
If you are really focusing on Wildshape to do damage, you are gimping your Casting Stat...
As for those horribly useless in combat spells above 5th level:
6th level spells
Anti-Life Shell (NO combat use there... right)
Dispel Magic, Greater (perfect tea party RPd tool)
Fire Seeds (approx 8d8+120, Reflex 1/2 BUT NO SR, just need delivery e.g. via Animal Companion)
7th level spells
Creeping Doom (swarmss...)
Fire Storm
Heal
Sunbeam
8th
Earthquake
Finger of Death
Reverse Gravity
Sunburst
Whirlwind
9th
Elemental Swarm
Shapechange
not to mention SUMMON NATURE´S ALLY
those are just from the freaking Core Rules, no APG, no nothing else...
These are nice spells it's true. But they are level 6 :DUhhh... What do you expect when you write:
There are no spells for buffing animal companion or himself after level 5 (animal growth)
And higher level spells are not really good neither in terms of combat (there are great RP or effect spells though)
I really like the caster druid with a strong animal compaanion that just shifts for special qualities. I think it has some nice options, I was really talking about the excitmeent of gaining levels as a shifter oriented druid.
If you really don´t want to use Full Casting, you obviously need some sort of Archetype that ditches that UBER poweful option to focus on Wildshape or whatever. If you´re still playing a FulL Casting Class, that is what it´s power will be based around.
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If you´re still playing a FulL Casting Class, that is what it´s power will be based around.
I agree , that's why I wanted feedback about high level druids.
Next time I play a druid, i ll do a caster type.And yes they are great combat spells I agree, I was wrong.
No. You aren't. The druid gains nearly no additional class features after 12th level. He has nice spells, but he could get them by taking a prestige class with spell advancement. The only thing that stops druids right now from doing so is a certain lack of Prestige Classes for druids.
While the druid can't take the form of a T-Rex, a behemoth hippo is a rather good choice if you want one strong attack. Combined with Strong Jaw and Vital Strike, it becomes rather devastating.
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The Druid gains a new class feature at 13th and 15th, as well as additional uses of wild shape. One of those class features is "A Thousand Faces" certainly applicable to a self-shaper. And being able to wildshape at will at level 20 might arguably count as a third class feature.
With Boon Companion (Seekers of Secret) and Shaping Focus (Ultimate Magic), all a druid needs is a Prestige Class with spell advancement and he can skip the last four levels of the class.
It's only saving grace is the fact that there is no druid equivalent of the Holy Vindicator at the moment.
Another thing to consider is the beast and the elemental wild shapes.
Special attacks in the first case, special immunities AND special attacks in the second are VEEERY handy.
The stats increase.
You get the facto another class feature each time you raise a level - because the number of things you can change shape in increase.
High level druid meant that you can be shifted, throw lightings around and transforms weapons in wood and cast battlefield control spells, have a ferocious beast wreaking havocs all around, curing yourself when needed while summoned beasts roam alla around and summoned fey make people they puppets.
Use everything you have - you will realize you have a lot of stuff.