"An oracle's curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle."
Just noticed this bit of text in the PRD that I had never seen before. Has it always been there or is it some kind of stealth errata? In any case, it's FREAKING AWESOME!
My oracle 1/paladin 2/sorcerer 13 will be unstoppable!
Except by my monk :)
For just a single level dip into oracle you need to be level 11 to get the level 5 curse update, and level 19 to for the level 10 one.
With the level 5 one at least the penalty for the curse is still pretty hefty, while the boni aren't that awesome. So "unstoppable"? I don't know.
For just a single level dip into oracle you need to be level 11 to get the level 5 curse update, and level 19 to for the level 10 one.
With the level 5 one at least the penalty for the curse is still pretty hefty, while the boni aren't that awesome. So "unstoppable"? I don't know.
As if speaking Celestial in combat is a problem anyhow... It is one skill point spent from each of your allies.
For just a single level dip into oracle you need to be level 11 to get the level 5 curse update, and level 19 to for the level 10 one.
With the level 5 one at least the penalty for the curse is still pretty hefty, while the boni aren't that awesome. So "unstoppable"? I don't know.
The unstoppable part was in reference to my character which, with one level dip in oracle, gets a HUGE boost to AC. Combined with everything else, my character becomes almost impossible to stop, even by suffocation and starvation, all the while maintaining effectiveness in combat.
Oracle lets me add my Charisma to AC. Paladin lets me add it to saves. All my spells are based off of it. It's a SAD character taken to the MAX. He may not get 8th-level spells, but when you are practically untouchable, I think it's worth it.
Hmm, does the amulet of natural armor require some kind of natural armor to begin with? That would drop his AC by 5.
Nope. Works just fine without it. The rules say that "A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0."
RAW Source?Hmm, does the amulet of natural armor require some kind of natural armor to begin with? That would drop his AC by 5.Nope. Works just fine without it. The rules say that "A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0."
The amulet has never required anyone to have a natural armor bonus. It functions just like the barkskin spell like many other items that work off of spells. There enough AP's to provide official characters to back that up.
@RD. Where does the immunity to starvation and suffocation come in?
What happens if you pick haunted for an Oracle 1/Something else lots build? Do you gain the spells known and simply can't cast them?
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The wording of AoNA goes "giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor from +1 to +5", which I understand as a bonus to existing natural armor. IIRC there was something somewhere about creatures having "default" natural armor bonus of +0.
Also, official characters: like the ones in GMG with potions of shield? :)
@RD. Where does the immunity to starvation and suffocation come in?
Ioun stones.
The concept isn't new. A 1 level oracle dip is super good for charisma based classes. You forgot to take the feat that lets you use Charisma for initiative (campaign setting). Also great fortitude, lightning reflexes and iron will are probably wasted feats on a character with more than +30 to all saves.
@RD. Where does the immunity to starvation and suffocation come in?Ioun stones.
Ok. I thought you had a permanent ability.
The wording of AoNA goes "giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor from +1 to +5", which I understand as a bonus to existing natural armor. IIRC there was something somewhere about creatures having "default" natural armor bonus of +0.
Also, official characters: like the ones in GMG with potions of shield? :)
BarkskinSchool transmutation; Level druid 2, ranger 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range touch
Target living creature touched
Duration 10 min./level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
Barkskin toughens a creature's skin. The effect grants a +2 enhancement bonus to the creature's existing natural armor bonus. This enhancement bonus increases by 1 for every three caster levels above 3rd, to a maximum of +5 at 12th level.
The enhancement bonus provided by barkskin stacks with the target's natural armor bonus, but not with other enhancement bonuses to natural armor. A creature without natural armor has an effective natural armor bonus of +0.
Note that it has the same wording as the amulet basically. It is also the same spell used to make the amulet. This combined with the fact that it is given to NPC in official AP's, along with other things I am too lazy to look up shows that anyone can use it.
PS:Part of me thinks you are not serious, but I am not sure.
I'm dead serious, this is a RD thread after all.
He is legit with the natural armor bonus. I am too lazy to do a complete character breakdown since it is not a character in my games.
You forgot to take the feat that lets you use Charisma for initiative (campaign setting).
Which feat is that?!?
Based on what you guys said, I've made some improvements to the character (mostly adding in some mundane gear and switching out feats).
Sadly, my hosting service seems to be dead, so I've been forced to upload the new version to MediaFire. You can download the updated PDF here.
If anyone wants to check my work, please use this version (same link).
I'm dead serious, this is a RD thread after all.
What's that supposed to mean? I may be an incorrigible min/maxer and have been known to follow uncommon rules interpretations at times, but I don't knowingly break the rules. EVER.
You forgot to take the feat that lets you use Charisma for initiative (campaign setting).Which feat is that?!?
I would most certainly like to know as well. I may give up my Lucky Halfling feat for it if I qualify.
I would most certainly like to know as well. I may give up my Lucky Halfling feat for it if I qualify.
Found it; Noble Scion.
Yes. Noble Scion (War) from the new Campaign Setting. My Kingmaker paladin X / oracle 1 uses that. :)
Yes. Noble Scion (War) from the new Campaign Setting. My Kingmaker paladin X / oracle 1 uses that. :)
Sounds great for my sorcerer/oracle/MT. =D
Also you'll want to have higher ACs available to you. Might I suggest Osyluth(sp) guile?
38 isn't high enough? CR 16 critters hit him less than half the time. A simple shield spell and protection from evil and it becomes a 44, so they almost never hit him then! If he uses smite evil and shield, it becomes a whopping 54 so they need a natural 20!
I considered Leadership, but it seems so cheesy, plus I don't want to have to stat out a cohort. What's more, it's an XP drain for the whole party, which nobody wants. With Arcane Strike, he can at least better cut his way out if he get's swallowed whole.
He may not have 8th-level spells, but his DCs are kept on par due to his insane Charisma. He is also built to be versatile, having spells for all ranges, all energy types (and force), buffing, debuffing, battlefield control, area damage, save or die, etc.
I'm sure he could be better, but I'm failing to find very many weaknesses.
EDIT: My hosting service is back up! The original links have now been updated. (I've also included noble scion for much higher initiative.)
I considered Leadership, but it seems so cheesy, plus I don't want to have to stat out a cohort. What's more, it's an XP drain for the whole party, which nobody wants. With Arcane Strike, he can at least better cut his way out if he get's swallowed whole.
It is cheesy, and entirely up to the DM on how it's applied to his game. However, you are incorrect about the XP:
A cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP. Instead, divide the cohort's level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to you, then add that number of experience points to the cohort's total.
No drain. The rest of the party is not affected by their presence at all.
I'm sure he could be better, but I'm failing to find very many weaknesses.
Well best of luck to you then, perhaps your DM won't find any either.
As to 'a simple shield spell and protection from evil'... are you doing this in combat?
I'll be frank.. if at 16th level you are spending standard actions on this sure you'll be the last to die.. the enemy won't bother with you as you're not a threat.
It's a poor use of resources at 6th level.. at 16th it's unconscionable!
As to 38 being 'good enough' a CR 17 (just APL+1) dragon has a +35 to hit unbuffed and can easily raise that to a +38 with it's main attack. Now your two standard action spells will mean that it needs all of a 6 to hit you...
That's not to mention that should you either get dispelled or caught without freedom of movement the same critter crushes you automatically. Your concentration check to teleport out is problematic at best, and even if you do.. when do you (if ever) come back?
I didn't mean to go all into this, but it just kinda grated on me.
-James
An inappropriate CR encounter won't have any trouble hitting me? What. A. Surprise.
The fact that dragons are deliberately designed to be really tough for an entire party for their listed CRs doesn't really help your point either. According to the Monster Creation guidelines which the vast majority of non-humanoid monsters follow, a CR 17 monster should have a +27 to hit with it's primary attacks. There isn't a problem with my character's defenses. There's a problem with your dragon being under CR'd.
In any case, if a dragon did suddenly show up, and I had even a slight suspicion that it might be a higher CR than my character, you can bet your bottom that the first thing I'm going to do is use smite evil. That gives my AC a +12 boost before any other spells are cast. How's his to hit chances now? How about if I throw in a shield spell as well.
As for buffing being an "unconscionable" decision, I disagree (at any level). Unless you can one shot the dragon with a realistic chance of success with some combo (which may or may not include your allies), I would argue that protecting one's self/party from it's inevitable onslaught is probably the BEST thing you can do (that or outright running away).
No drain. The rest of the party is not affected by their presence at all.
Good to know. Thanks for pointing it out. I probably should have remembered it myself, but someone recently said the same thing (about it being a drain) and I just took the statement at face value. I'll remember not to do that again.
Nice AC, but other than common, you only speak the languages of short people.
Got a problem with short people?
Very nice build.
As said, as soon as you are dispelled, you are quite worthless, though. This probably can be said about 90% of all characters, though.
True. He's still got a ring slot open, however. If I was truly concerned about it, I could give him a ring of counterspelling with dispel magic or greater dispelling in it. I don't think our characters have ever once been the target of dispel magic though (we rarely get past 10th-level and rarely deal with enemy spellcasters), so I'm not going to worry about it.
The only thing that can kill you is random chance. A failed "Save or Die" would do it, but you can only fail on a natural one.
Wouldn't that just suck? Boast about the invulnerability of the character only to die on a natural one.
Using abilities like Touch of Chaos and Vision of Madness would help with this. It would be enough to frighten you, but probably not enough to kill you.
So they spend a round debuffing and I spend a round buffing. In the next round we start again. :P
"Rocks fall, Shioji make his reflex save and teleports away, everyone else dies".
Just as much a game ender in many situations as it would be if Shioji died with the rest of them (unless he can resurrect them all of course).
What's that supposed to mean? I may be an incorrigible min/maxer and have been known to follow uncommon rules interpretations at times, but I don't knowingly break the rules. EVER.
To many of us that is breaking the rules, and using "loopholes" is not much higher on the totem pole. It is just a common view on the boards.
PS: The bag of devouring seems to know the rules pretty well so I still think he knew that amulet was legal. I was just bored enough to entertain him(?).
On anther note I wish I had as much free time as you did to play in all these campaigns. Enjoy the time while you still have it.
Also you'll want to have higher ACs available to you. Might I suggest Osyluth(sp) guile?38 isn't high enough? CR 16 critters hit him less than half the time. A simple shield spell and protection from evil and it becomes a 44, so they almost never hit him then! If he uses smite evil and shield, it becomes a whopping 54 so they need a natural 20!
I considered Leadership, but it seems so cheesy, plus I don't want to have to stat out a cohort. What's more, it's an XP drain for the whole party, which nobody wants. With Arcane Strike, he can at least better cut his way out if he get's swallowed whole.
He may not have 8th-level spells, but his DCs are kept on par due to his insane Charisma. He is also built to be versatile, having spells for all ranges, all energy types (and force), buffing, debuffing, battlefield control, area damage, save or die, etc.
I'm sure he could be better, but I'm failing to find very many weaknesses.
EDIT: My hosting service is back up! The original links have now been updated. (I've also included noble scion for much higher initiative.)
You are assuming you will have the time to get those buffs up. Leadership does not affect party XP unless your group has a houserule.
You get hit less than half of the time if it is one CR X creature. Two CR X-2 creatures can flank and probably do other bad things depending on the GM. Since you gave up caster levels from what I remember dispelling the buffs is not a big deal.Of course he only needs to be good enough to survive vs the current GM.
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The fact that dragons are deliberately designed to be really tough for an entire party for their listed CRs doesn't really help your point either.
That is not true. In 3.5 dragons were deliberately under CR'd. In pathfinder they redid the CR's to actually match up to what they are capable of doing. Paizo did not like the under CR idea.
You are assuming you will have the time to get those buffs up.
True, but if I don't have time to get even a single spell up, it's pretty much a lost cause anyways. That's why ambushes are a popular tactic. However, if there is no way out of it at all, than it's just bad GMing. Anyone can slit a PC's throat in their sleep or similar. As such, it's not something I'm going to judge my character by.
Leadership does not affect party XP unless your group has a houserule.
So it doesn't. My mistake.
You get hit less than half of the time if it is one CR X creature. Two CR X-2 creatures can flank and probably do other bad things depending on the GM.
This is a good point.
Since you gave up caster levels from what I remember dispelling the buffs is not a big deal.
Depends on the enemy. Dragons have low caster levels for their CR. A humanoid caster with full spellcasting capability would prove to be troublesome, but then again, when are they not?
Of course he only needs to be good enough to survive vs the current GM.
It's true we face a lot of encounter types, but not other kinds. Swarms of weak enemies and singular big bads seem to be a staple in our group. Spellcasters and throat slitters are uncommon as well. Encounters are almost always short ranged, tend to be ambushes, and generally under- or over- CR'd.
Our characters are usually powerful (25 pt buy, hero points sometimes), but as players we tend to be poor strategists who often lack teamwork, so it balances out (with a slight tendency to end badly for us). GM can be just as bad at times.
That is not true. In 3.5 dragons were deliberately under CR'd. In pathfinder they redid the CR's to actually match up to what they are capable of doing. Paizo did not like the under CR idea.
If what Maissen said is true about an unbuffed CR 17 dragon having a +35 to hit (rather than the ~+27 that it should have), than it IS indeed a severely under CR'd creature. At the very least, it must have some other substantial drawback to make up for its uncanny accuracy. From what I recall of dragons, however, they are well rounded and had few weaknesses (touch AC being the only one that comes to mind).
You are assuming you will have the time to get those buffs up.True, but if I don't have time to get even a single spell up, it's pretty much a lost cause anyways. That's why ambushes are a popular tactic. However, if there is no way out of it at all, than it's just bad GMing. Anyone can slit a PC's throat in their sleep or similar. As such, it's not something I'm going to judge my character by.
Leadership does not affect party XP unless your group has a houserule.So it doesn't. My mistake.
You get hit less than half of the time if it is one CR X creature. Two CR X-2 creatures can flank and probably do other bad things depending on the GM.This is a good point.
Since you gave up caster levels from what I remember dispelling the buffs is not a big deal.Depends on the enemy. Dragons have low caster levels for their CR. A humanoid caster with full spellcasting capability would prove to be troublesome, but then again, when are they not?
Of course he only needs to be good enough to survive vs the current GM.It's true we face a lot of encounter types, but not other kinds. Swarms of weak enemies and singular big bads seem to be a staple in our group. Spellcasters and throat slitters are uncommon as well. Encounters are almost always short ranged, tend to be ambushes, and generally under- or over- CR'd.
Our characters are usually powerful (25 pt buy, hero points sometimes), but as players we tend to be poor strategists who often lack teamwork, so it balances out (with a slight tendency to end badly for us). GM can be just as bad at times.
That is not true. In 3.5 dragons were deliberately under CR'd. In pathfinder they redid the CR's to actually match up to what they are capable of doing. Paizo did not like the under CR idea.If what Maissen said is true about an unbuffed CR 17 dragon having a +35 to...
I have a green and a copper at a 31 and 32. They are over, but so are is the horned devil by its AC, attack rolls, and ability to force saves.
I am now beginning to wonder how many creatures actually stick to that chart.After checking:Many of them are pretty close. Outsiders tend to wander off the chart though as do dragons. Everyone else plays fairly or is under CR'd. I have not checked bestiary 2.
Why is there no team work? This is just a curiosity thing, and not a "you are doing it wrong" thing.
Eh, if I'd see a character like this in my group, I'd have an invisible Pit Fiend sneak up to him and love-hug him to death. No Ring of Freedom of Movement at this level is not a good idea, although a built-in Cape of the Mountebank might do the trick, too.
I am now beginning to wonder how many creatures actually stick to that chart.
Then please head over to ==> this poor, neglected thread <== and take a look!
Why is there no team work? This is just a curiosity thing, and not a "you are doing it wrong" thing.
I'm not really sure. I think it's something 4E did to us. When we played that for a little while before moving to Pathfinder it was all "which power should I use" rather than "how can I best serve my party?" That mentality, sadly, seemed to carry over even though Pathfinder is more "teamwork friendly."
It wasn't always like that, only the last two years or so. We also split up a lot, which is a real bad habit as NONE of the Pathfinder modules seem to be designed to accommodate such things.