First the new question, assume I equip a guy with a ring of friend shield, then cast temporal stasis or imprisonment on him. Will I then be able to let him soak half of all my future dmg?
Now the old question, which to some extend have been discussed here but with no conclusion.
Would it be possible to wear two ring of friend shield and thus reducing the dmg even further? if yes, how much would you recieve? 1/3 or 1/4?
First the new question, assume I equip a guy with a ring of friend shield, then cast temporal stasis or imprisonment on him. Will I then be able to let him soak half of all my future dmg?
Now the old question, which to some extend have been discussed here but with no conclusion.
Would it be possible to wear two ring of friend shield and thus reducing the dmg even further? if yes, how much would you recieve? 1/3 or 1/4?
To the 2nd question same type affects don't stack so no. At best one ring would work until one of them was dead and then the 2nd person would start to take damage.
Back to the first question. Temporal Stasis is a no. Imprisonment is a no since it works like temporal stasis.
PRD(Temporal Stasis):. Its body functions virtually cease, and no force or effect can harm it.
To the 2nd question same type affects don't stack so no. At best one ring would work until one of them was dead and then the 2nd person would start to take damage.
Fair enough.
Back to the first question. Temporal Stasis is a no. Imprisonment is a no since it works like temporal stasis.PRD(Temporal Stasis):. Its body functions virtually cease, and no force or effect can harm it.
Well that was the whole point of using a target which is imprisoned... As far as I can see it should still be a valid target to activate a ring of friend shield.
To the 2nd question same type affects don't stack so no. At best one ring would work until one of them was dead and then the 2nd person would start to take damage.
That sounds like it has potential for BBEGs. Especially if they can get their hands on cursed ring of friend shields that can't be removed easily.
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First the new question, assume I equip a guy with a ring of friend shield, then cast temporal stasis or imprisonment on him. Will I then be able to let him soak half of all my future dmg?
Ring of friend shield: "These curious rings always come in pairs. A friend shield ring without its mate is useless. Either wearer of one of a pair of the rings can, at any time, command his ring to cast a shield other spell with the wearer of the mated ring as the recipient. This effect has no range limitation."
So, if you're wearing a ring of friend shield, your ring can cast shield other, with the other guy being the target. Let's assume you can do this. What happens?
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a pair of platinum rings worth 50 gp worn by both you and the target)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
This spell wards the subject and creates a mystic connection between you and the subject so that some of its wounds are transferred to you. The subject gains a +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus on saves. Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you. Forms of harm that do not involve hit points, such as charm effects, temporary ability damage, level draining, and death effects, are not affected. If the subject suffers a reduction of hit points from a lowered Constitution score, the reduction is not split with you because it is not hit point damage. When the spell ends, subsequent damage is no longer divided between the subject and you, but damage already split is not reassigned to the subject.
If you and the subject of the spell move out of range of each other, the spell ends.
So, he'd be the target of the spell. The effect of the spell is to transfer damage he'd receive to you. Sure ya wanna due that for your purpose?
To transfer some of your damage to him, you'd have to have him activate it; you'd then be the target and your damage would transfer to him. But, then you put him in a condition where he cannot be harmed by any effect. I would call him taking damage to be harm. He can't take damage from this effect. Your interpretation is that the spell sends the damage to no where. Another might interpret this that the spell keeps the damage with you.
Any rule info to determine which? "Several other general rules apply when spells or magical effects operate in the same place:...Sometimes, one spell can render a later spell irrelevant. Both spells are still active, but one has rendered the other useless in some fashion."
Not sure it's a great fit, but along with, "If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted," I'd go with "he can't receive the damage, so the shield other is irrelevant, fails, or is effectively out of range. You take all the damage."
Note: I don't think these are exact rules matches. But, I think that they provide a basic framework within the concept of rules mastery that suggests that the ring doesn't work.
To the 2nd question same type affects don't stack so no. At best one ring would work until one of them was dead and then the 2nd person would start to take damage.
Fair enough.
Back to the first question. Temporal Stasis is a no. Imprisonment is a no since it works like temporal stasis.PRD(Temporal Stasis):. Its body functions virtually cease, and no force or effect can harm it.
Well that was the whole point of using a target which is imprisoned... As far as I can see it should still be a valid target to activate a ring of friend shield.
How is it still a valid target with what I bolded. It specifically says no harm. That is not a paraphrase. If he loses hp he is definitely being harmed.
I will also add that the person who activates the ring is the one that loses hp, not the one that is protected. Since the person in stasis can't take actions they can't activate the ring anyway.PRD: Either wearer of one of a pair of the rings can, at any time, command his ring to cast a shield other spell with the [b]wearer of the mated ring as the recipient[b].
The caster is the person that cast the spell, and the recipient is the one who is protected since the idea is to allow you to voluntarily take the damage.
edit:ninja'd by Howie
So, he'd be the target of the spell. The effect of the spell is to transfer damage he'd receive to you. Sure ya wanna due that for your purpose?
To transfer some of your damage to him, you'd have to have him activate it; you'd then be the target and your damage would transfer to him.
That is true, I guess I just assumed it would go both ways, but I can see that is not the case.
But while this does solve the first part, the second part still stands. Suppose someone casts shield other and is then imprisoned the next round.
"Several other general rules apply when spells or magical effects operate in the same place:...Sometimes, one spell can render a later spell irrelevant. Both spells are still active, but one has rendered the other useless in some fashion."
First, where do you get these general rules from? - I haven't seen them before.
Second, I would hardly say that imprisonment renders shield other useless. In fact quite the opposite.
Not sure it's a great fit, but along with, "If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted," I'd go with "he can't receive the damage, so the shield other is irrelevant, fails, or is effectively out of range. You take all the damage."
Note: I don't think these are exact rules matches. But, I think that they provide a basic framework within the concept of rules mastery that suggests that the ring doesn't work.
I would not say that this rule can be applied since the spell has already been cast.
How is it still a valid target with what I bolded. It specifically says no harm. That is not a paraphrase. If he loses hp he is definitely being harmed.
That is the whole point, the person in temporal stasis recieves half the dmg from the shield other effect, but since he cannot be harmed in any way, the dmg is soaked by temporal stasis.
I will also add that the person who activates the ring is the one that loses hp, not the one that is protected. Since the person in stasis can't take actions they can't activate the ring anyway.
But as I suggested earlier, the person in stasis could have activated the ring before he was imprisoned, which should not dispel the effect as far as I can see.
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"Several other general rules apply when spells or magical effects operate in the same place:...Sometimes, one spell can render a later spell irrelevant. Both spells are still active, but one has rendered the other useless in some fashion."
First, where do you get these general rules from? - I haven't seen them before.
From the chapter on [url]http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html]magic[/url]
I've said the rules I've cited aren't a great fit. They do provide a particular feel under the design concept of game mastery. But, as with the story of the elephant and the blind men, sometimes people come to different conclusions about that which they feel. :D
If you see temporal stasis working the way you suggest then it will.
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Great BBEG cursed item:
Cage of Unwilling Shield with matching ring.
Whomever wears the ring, shares damage with whomever is in the cage, as the spell unwilling shield. Make the cage hold more then one person, may lead to an epic fight while the players try to take the BBEG down without killing the captives....
<Evil Grin>
If you're the DM and want to use this combo.... just fiat it and do it!
If you're a PC who wants to use this combo.... stop giving your DM a hard time and pick a different concept.
I am both in a sense. Our group is taking a break from roleplaying and just going full out lvl 20 munchkin to see what we can come up with, but all this is beside the point, and so is your comment.
I am not interested in bending the rules, but when they seem unclear and people say, this is how it is, I want to see the rules that support it.
I intended no offense. I forgot this was the rules thread. What I was trying to say is that as the DM you're the judicial system so you have to interpret the law. Words can only say so much. It's you're job to apply them case by case when they aren't completely clear.
I guess you get it so peace.
Peace to you too.
It does not appear that there are any clear rules regarding this. But since the general agreement is that shield other and imprisonment will not work I will respect that and go with that.
Thanks for a civilized discussion everyone.
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So what would happen if i cast Unwilling shield on my target and a ally casts shield other on me?
So lets say I get hit by johnny skullcrusher the two handed fighter for 36 and I have both effects up ( different effects i think ). Do i choose the order to resolve the spell effects in?
Example 1 : out of the 36 johnny takes 18 and my ally and myself take 9
Example 2 : I take 18 and johnny and my ally take 9
Example 3 : My ally takes 18 and johnny and I take 9
So what would happen if i cast Unwilling shield on my target and a ally casts shield other on me?
So lets say I get hit by johnny skullcrusher the two handed fighter for 36 and I have both effects up ( different effects i think ). Do i choose the order to resolve the spell effects in?
Example 1 : out of the 36 johnny takes 18 and my ally and myself take 9
Example 2 : I take 18 and johnny and my ally take 9
Example 3 : My ally takes 18 and johnny and I take 9
That is interesting. The rules don't cover it. I would your target takes 18, you take 9, and the your buddy takes 9. That is because when the order of affects matter, such as in this case, they are supposed to be resolved in the most beneficial order to the character.
As an example if you get hit by a fireball but you have energy resistance you do the reflex save first and then apply the energy resistance.
First the new question, assume I equip a guy with a ring of friend shield, then cast temporal stasis or imprisonment on him. Will I then be able to let him soak half of all my future dmg?
If you activate the command word, you take half the damage that is dealt to the subject of the shield other effect. Since that creature can't take damage (temporal stasis says immune to damage), you can't take half the damage from that creature. Shield other causes the target of the spell to send *his* damage to you, not the other way around.
Now what might work is having a creature activate the ring of friend shield on you and then getting the temporal stasis effect on the activating creature. That would cause the ring to channel shield other damage to the temporal stasis creature -- and that would cause you to permanently take half damage.
Only requires a 50,000gp item, an 8th level spell with a 5,000gp material component, and getting the target to cast the ring effect on you (very possible through enchantment, though).
Another toy in my Evil GM toy bag, thanks (:
In the situation where you cast shield other (via the rings or otherwise) and are then imprisoned, I think the only thing you can do is turn to the spell text of "Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you". The subject takes half damage. That's irrespective of what happens to the rest of it. Then the rest is passed to you. If you're invulnerable because of imprisonment, then it just vanishes.
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In the situation where you cast shield other (via the rings or otherwise) and are then imprisoned, I think the only thing you can do is turn to the spell text of "Additionally, the subject takes only half damage from all wounds and attacks (including those dealt by special abilities) that deal hit point damage. The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you". The subject takes half damage. That's irrespective of what happens to the rest of it. Then the rest is passed to you. If you're invulnerable because of imprisonment, then it just vanishes.
This interpretation seems good.
Interesting... BBEG who is neigh unkillable due to his necromantic manipulations!
As far as stacking goes, I'd say that the benefits don't stack, but the drawbacks do.
Specifically, the AC and save bonuses are named, and don't stack. The "take half damage" doesn't stack, because no matter how many instances of it you're under, you still only take damage once, and so that amount is halved. However, each person who targeted you with shield other then triggers the "The amount of damage not taken by the warded creature is taken by you" clause, and so each takes their damage. Multiple castings of unwilling shield would function the same way - you'd still take half damage no matter what, but so does everyone else you've cast it on.