Well without meta gaming, there is alot of information that can be given out about the five prisoners, if the characters research, Also being 1st level they need to equip.
By going here and there, before our group went in, we got some seriouss freebie magical hand outs that the professor left behind for us, that without this stuff, we'd probably be dead.
You have to think the professor was a level 7 wizard, and he died up there. A first level party is just going to become more ghosts, without prep.
Pretty much, the way it unfolded for us at least is #1) My character wanted the money he was 'owed' and did not want to stick around... #2) Gibs started doing creepy stuff the first night we were in town.
So there was a distraction and stuff to do.
If kept in the mind set of what you are doing there, you really are only there for the funeral. So as a DM have stuff happen right away that isn't the harrowstone.
It doesn't take long to get to 2nd level.
What happened to us before we got to harrowstone?
LEt me think.
We got jumped by stirges, we read Lorimors joural and it said something about going to the restlands, were we went into a crypt and got jumped by centipedes, and found loot hed left for us.
Gibs kept doing creepy stuff so we decided to follow him and confront him about the letters on the wall....
Anyway I think that may be it, as far as I can remember. but if you have barbarians and undead hunting rangers in the party, then yea...you might just run around with your heads cut off and get them erm, cut off.
But there has to be someone intelligent int he party.
If you could just run up there and kick butt, some townsfolk would have already done it.
So I think you know this but I'll state it incase you don't. I think the purpose of the module, or at least it seems this way from my reading(s), is to dive into the prison a bit, and then back out. Get supplies, heal up, do some research, and dive back in. It's not a one-shot dungeon. In that way, it's somewhat different from many "dungeons" my PCs have played in over their 30 years of role playing games.
That being said, last night one of my PCs decided he wanted to checkout this prison. He went by himself, since the others didn't want to go. So he crept around the outside of the place. Was very studious, very matter of fact. Once he stepped onto the grounds, through the gate, I ran the mind-effecting fear (the one w/ claustrophobia and burning skin) and he was shaken for 6 MINUTES. With no other partymembers there, he totally freaked and ran screaming down for the town.
I can't say this would have happened if there had been all 6 of the party there, but it worked wonderfully! That night I ran the optional event Vision of Imprisonment while he slept. He is totally completely scared out of his mind. And it's, frankly, awesome.
Maybe that helps... maybe it doesn't.
"This adventure/campaign is not a kick down the door style game. I strongly advise people to play things smart, and be catious before going through with any plans you come up with. I don't want to kill characters, but there is plenty of rope laying around in the first adventure for the thoughtless to wrap around their own throats."
The above is something I'm going to add to the write up I hand/email to my players before we even make characters for this. I like to hand out a lot of information before I run a game, and I think in this case a blunt warning right from the get go is in order.
As for damage control during the game, check out Pendagasts write up of his game. It's from the perspective of a player, but it will give you some good ideas on what intel will help the party be prepared for going into Harrowstone. Don't be afraid to add a few details here and there to the research checks.
Also, a smart party is going to hear about a haunted house, and hopefully realize they are liley ill equipped to handle ghosts right out of the starting gate. If they don't realize this (doesn't make them dumb, they just might be new, or be thinking you won't throw them up against something they're not ready to handle) suggest it. Either tell them flat out, or reveal it through conversations with NPCs...
"Harrowstone? Nah, never been up there myself. Jim, my brother-in-law, got drunk one night and went up that'a way on a bet though. Takes with him his daddy's lumber axe and staggers his way up the hill. Comes back about an hour later, white as a sheet and lookin' like he sweated out about twenty pounds. Said he saw some spook up there that his axe went straight through like it was nothin'...course the spook took a swing right back at ol' Jim and sucked a decade off his life, I betcha. Nope, never been up there and ain't ever gonna go neither."
Creative Director
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Keep in mind that once the PCs start to explore Harrowstone, they don't have to finish it the same outing. It's fine if the PCs head up there immediately—but if they do, they're going to get in over their head pretty quickly since they'll be lacking the XP and, more importantly, lacking the clues and equipment that doing research in town will get them. In this case, don't punish the PCs for being curious—let them escape Harrowstone, after which you can drop hints if you need to via helpful NPCs that there's a lot to learn in town about the site.
Keep in mind that once the PCs start to explore Harrowstone, they don't have to finish it the same outing. It's fine if the PCs head up there immediately—but if they do, they're going to get in over their head pretty quickly since they'll be lacking the XP and, more importantly, lacking the clues and equipment that doing research in town will get them. In this case, don't punish the PCs for being curious—let them escape Harrowstone, after which you can drop hints if you need to via helpful NPCs that there's a lot to learn in town about the site.
However, a good death is always a great addition to a story. Without exception, the most memorable events in role playing I've had have ALL surrounded a character's death, or near death. If you've got players who are invested so heavily in a PC, it can be hard, but the folks I run with enjoy making PCs and always banter around ideas that might result in their current PC being ostracized from the party or dead.
Most recently, one of my PCs is seriously debating stealing all the books that the professor left and taking off to Cheliax, where he's from, to make sure these books to "combat evil" don't fall in the hands that could harm his government.
Obviously if he did this, he'd just bring in another character.
I played a diviner in a campaign that got so obsessed with the idea of becoming a deity, or finding a way to try to do that, that he alienated himself from the party and eventually I took him out of the group and rolled another. I also played a wizard once who would fireball (and other area spells) his own party members when he was convinced that they would save or dodge and that it was better than only targeting a few NPCs. While it was right, tactically, the players didn't take kindly to being singed repeatedly and he eventually was ostracized from the party. But, again, this character comes up over the years, repeatedly. Memorable.
I'm considering being a little more heavy-handed and saying there's an informal local prohibition on visiting Harrowstone. The town fears that people going up there will just stir the spirits and make things worse. Under this approach, if the players insist on going up there without first earning the town's confidence, they will find the town a good bit less welcoming. On the other hand, if they prove themselves to the townsfolk by dealing well with some of the creepy town events, then they'll get support from the town. Although this may not be the original concept of the module, I think it does kind of make sense, and it provides incentive for the players to stay in town.
Although the hit-and-run approach to Harrowstone makes sense, I'm not sure my players will do repeat visits...
I'm considering being a little more heavy-handed and saying there's an informal local prohibition on visiting Harrowstone. The town fears that people going up there will just stir the spirits and make things worse. Under this approach, if the players insist on going up there without first earning the town's confidence, they will find the town a good bit less welcoming. On the other hand, if they prove themselves to the townsfolk by dealing well with some of the creepy town events, then they'll get support from the town. Although this may not be the original concept of the module, I think it does kind of make sense, and it provides incentive for the players to stay in town.
Although the hit-and-run approach to Harrowstone makes sense, I'm not sure my players will do repeat visits...
That's a pretty neat thing, a local ban on visiting it, like a condemned building IRL.
Maybe the PCs have to obtain a special writ of permission from the local authorities (if the are lawful) or sneak in (if they are not).
All I can say is, from my experience there, we (for whatever reason) followed the DM/let our selves be lead through the story line (aside from my constant where is he at? Lemme at em lemme at em! bit) 1) this was the DMs first experience running a game (so wanted to take it easy on her) and 2) My CN inquisitor really had no direct motivation to 'run off to harrowstone' and I wasn't sure "i wanted to get involved'....just the facts, m'am, type of attitude.
So it took come coaxing, some 'strange happenings' and some "what is this harrowstone place?" to get there.
My wife, the DM, grew up 'in the lifestyle' so to speak. Her father was an MP and worked at Leavenworth(sp?) Federal Penn and then got out of the military and had a good many years as a civilian prison guard.
So the prison, although they lived close, was always "over there".
Despite, never working the job, she knew alot about prisons, prison life and the guards/warden stuff-like-thingies. So, she portrayed the prison as being "over yonder" and not necessarily a big building 'in town'.
We also live in the small town where loggin was huge, and the Boise Cascade Mill was 'the' employer, it is shut down and no one really 'goes' to the site any more, despite it having been the central thing in the community.
So we had some RL experience with prisons and abandoned facilities to apply.
As far as the professor having been killed? It was made clear to us (at least by our DM) that a) there were no signs of foul play. b) the death had been 'investigated' and c) a statue he had been working with/examining had fallen on him, causing his death.
So there wasn't an initial "murder" investigation or a 'avenge' our mentors death plot line, honestly we started out with "why do we have to sit here for a month, when I could be running off to lepistadt to get my benjamins?"
We really had no 'evidence' of foul play with the professor until a) we started reading his journal, and following it around (it told us where to go), and some of the stuff in there gave the idea 'something was going on' followed by meeting vesorianna and having her tell us what she had seen.
while we were reading the professors journal and deciding what to do, we had "calamity" going on out the front window... dudes running around int he night shirts with razors, stirges, haunts etc.
So 1) we didn't get time to rush off to harrowstone right away and 2) there was tons of loot we got that, literally we 'needed' or we would have been toast (although we forgot to we even had the haunt siphons and none of us knew out of game what they were, so they werent a 'go to' item)
the Pc's need that loot or otherwise they would be caught draggin bodies out of the harrowstone, if they can.
We had a fight in the attic that nearly cost us 50% of the party with in...2 rounds I think.
I'm preparing to run Harrowstone and I think I have my players properly psyched to try the 'horror-gothic' thing.
We're really looking forward to it.
But I'll be honest, I'm struggling a little bit with the opening chapters of the story.
In theory, there are a lot of things going bump in the night and weird locals painting bloody letters on walls.
It's great writing, great texture, great mood-setting.
But isn't it sort of obvious that the source of all this creepiness is that big haunted prison in the hill?
You know, the one where the Professor died? The one hinted at in all the various rumors and described explicitly in the Professor's diary?
I'm guessing that the first thing my players will say is, 'Harrowstone, here we come!"
But the adventure states explicitly that the players should be herded away from Harrowstone until they're second level (good advice, given the nasties up there...)
And I don't want them to miss the cool stuff that comes earlier.
One possibility would be to suggest that they need to learn something about Harrowstone before venturing in.
But reading the Knowledge checks and so forth, I can't see anything here that will really advantage the party if they learn it.
There aren't any weaknesses disclosed for the Five Prisoners. that I can see.
We don't learn anything that will inspire the PCs to partner better with Vesorianna. (Unless I'm missing something...)
Anyone else dealt with this? Anyone come up with a way to shepherd characters away from the final confrontation that isn't blatantly meta?
It's already just a bit weird that I'm urging my players to hang around Ravengro for a month with these dangerous books they're supposed to deliver, so I'd prefer not to be too obvious with my story-telling...
Advice welcome...
Captain Marsh
One thing you can do to continue the research process is add in scaling knowledge checks to learn more about the 5 Prisoners and their vulnerabilities. During the course of the pc's adventure through the dungeon they will find items that were once possessions of the 5, all of which can be used to exploit weaknesses. Discovery of how to use these cursed items against their former owners could be made available through knowledge checks (DC 25-30 is a good range, depending on party composition and other modular factors). The means of player discovery of how to exploit said items is left to DM discretion, and to my way of thinking it is consistent as an expansion of existing research on the part of the pcs, augmented by some divination.
Another option is to throw so many rumors, legends, gossip, and sideplots at them that they don't know where to begin. I have a thread on side plots for this AP on this board. We run the slow exp track and I add enough homespun in to keep the levels consistent from AP to AP. This allows me to expand the narrative and add my own variations to the themes of the AP without blowing the power curve. As a side effect, it is also wonderfully distracting if you need to keep them busy due to the mechanics of the AP. I hope this may be of some help and best of luck to you in your campaign!
I'll give you a short summary of how things went when I GMed this:
After the will was read the group checked out the books in the chest they were called to deliver to Lepidstadt and found the journal. I made the smartest character there sit for a few long hours leafing through it, which took him (and a cleric to support) out for a while. The monk entertained himself at the local temple while the barbarian went straight to Harrowstone. He did not enter but dipped his hand into the water at the east and had to deal with the skeletons. That made him think twice about coming back just too soon. That night Gibbs painted the first letter and luckily that drew their attention.
From there on it's basically a tightrope walk trying to throw the next event / haunt at them right as they aim for harrowstone yet again.
This works fine right now, they made near all of their DC25 research and I believe they are about prepared to go the first time.
What I am a bit worried about is that they just might want to go through harrowstone in one go, and thereby rob me of the chance to play the rest of those awesome events like the town hall inferno, but we will see :)
I'll give you a short summary of how things went when I GMed this:** spoiler omitted **
I seriously doubt they will do Harrowstone in one go, Haunts and the like will be a drain on their resources to the point that they will have to go to town and rest a few times. If they're really stubborn, sufficient utilization of the random encouters table will encourage them that this isnt a one-off dungeon.
I should hope so. Nevertheless I took no risks and house-ruled that the mage has to study in a magical library to gain his spells for the level up, so that should help as well ;)
Keep in mind that once the PCs start to explore Harrowstone, they don't have to finish it the same outing. It's fine if the PCs head up there immediately—but if they do, they're going to get in over their head pretty quickly since they'll be lacking the XP and, more importantly, lacking the clues and equipment that doing research in town will get them. In this case, don't punish the PCs for being curious—let them escape Harrowstone, after which you can drop hints if you need to via helpful NPCs that there's a lot to learn in town about the site.
And in fact, this is probably one of the best ways for it to go down!
DUH! Of course the "haunted prison on the hill" is the source for all the problems - but is knowing that enough...?
(To be honest, I'd be ecstatic if my PCs immediately toodled up the hill to the prison, get kicked around a bit, and then scurry back to town saying "I think we need to interact a bit more"...)
(To be honest, I'd be ecstatic if my PCs immediately toodled up the hill to the prison, get kicked around a bit, and then scurry back to town saying "I think we need to interact a bit more"...)
Arnwyn, one of my PCs did just that. But he did it solo nonetheless! I detailed it here.
I was considering having the journal locked away in the prof's desk, which his daughter gradually cleans out after his death. That way, I can freely run the neat mood and foreshadowing pieces without any problem. As the town grows more frightened, the PC's can search the prof's office for the journal if they take that initiative. Kendra can find it and show it to them if they don't.
So here's an update on how it went:
Mostly, you were all correct: My players just sort of "got" the idea that they needed to recon the town first. Also, they got very intensely focused on Gib as a target of their suspicions and seemed far more interested in finding out what his deal was/is.
In our first play session, we got as far as the PCs pillaging the false crypt, doing a lot of recon and research, and interacting with maybe 7 different townspeople.
There were only two small battles (centipedes, an ectoplasmic dude) but all the eery things going on (when things were dragging a bit I threw one of the less involved players into the locked prison illusion...) seemed to keep them intrigued.
One more thing: I tend to modify modules heavily, in part because in the past I've transferred them to Eberron.
As an experiment, I'm trying to run Harrowstone pretty much exactly as written, set in Golarion and Ustalav, with only a few bits of narrative license.
(In my version, Gib is the former sheriff of Ravengro, so he has a point of conflict with the current sheriff -- little stuff like that.)
So far, it's running beautifully, pretty much straight from the page...
--Captain Marsh
Eberron huh? So how did you update warforged for pathfinder?
also you have to admit, they are in a town they have never been in, know nothing about, and are going to do the usual, "i got to the shop, I go tot the bar etc etc"
I was considering having the journal locked away in the prof's desk, which his daughter gradually cleans out after his death. That way, I can freely run the neat mood and foreshadowing pieces without any problem. As the town grows more frightened, the PC's can search the prof's office for the journal if they take that initiative. Kendra can find it and show it to them if they don't.
Interesting. So, while the Professor had the forethought to still circle the entries, we assume he did not have the forethought to put it in the trunk before heading off to Harrowstone for the last time. That certainly would make the focus of the adventure less immediately clear, and I guess it would also delay the crypt run.
I'll have to give this more thought. I suppose one could delay the discovery of the journal for just a day or two, which wouldn't mess things up too much.
I was considering having the journal locked away in the prof's desk, which his daughter gradually cleans out after his death. That way, I can freely run the neat mood and foreshadowing pieces without any problem. As the town grows more frightened, the PC's can search the prof's office for the journal if they take that initiative. Kendra can find it and show it to them if they don't.Interesting. So, while the Professor had the forethought to still circle the entries, we assume he did not have the forethought to put it in the trunk before heading off to Harrowstone for the last time. That certainly would make the focus of the adventure less immediately clear, and I guess it would also delay the crypt run.
I'll have to give this more thought. I suppose one could delay the discovery of the journal for just a day or two, which wouldn't mess things up too much.
Many people annotate books, so I'd expect my PC's to see the circled items as research notations rather than a deliberate message requiring foreknowledge of doom. I thought putting the journal in with his other books was a bit too contrived, unless it's a habit of the professor's to do so before any dangerous undertaking. I haven't found anybody who had their arrangements perfect before they died, no matter how prudent they were. We know death is coming eventually, but we never think it's woops! right now! s&*!!
I'm also doing this to fit my group's playstyle. They detest being handed obvious clues. This will give 'em a chance to do it themselves if they think of it. The adventure may be a bit more linear as a result, but I'm betting my guys will be willing to raze the Prof's house to find any clues. If not, Kendra to the rescue, perhaps arranging a little alone time with a PC she asks to help her in the search - if they're so inclined.
As always, your mileage may vary. Whatever you do to make it fun is OK!
As always, your mileage may vary. Whatever you do to make it fun is OK!
I personally made the Professor's journal his spellbook, then bequeathed his spellbook to a PC upon his death.
Seemed less heavy-handed.
I personally made the Professor's journal his spellbook, then bequeathed his spellbook to a PC upon his death.
Seemed less heavy-handed.
That sounds like a pretty huge gift, since the Professor was a 7th level wizard -- how many spells were in that book? Also, wouldn't he have wanted Kendra to have it?
That sounds like a pretty huge gift, since the Professor was a 7th level wizard -- how many spells were in that book? Also, wouldn't he have wanted Kendra to have it?I personally made the Professor's journal his spellbook, then bequeathed his spellbook to a PC upon his death.
Seemed less heavy-handed.
Also, the person he's giving it to is the Dhampir PC, whom he's known since they were both twenty years old. He has explicit instructions for this character to, when he has scribed over the professor's spells, to remove the spell fireball and pass it on to Kendra. So it's not like I'm ignoring the background of the adventure.
It has also been a lot of fun to characterize the Professor within his spellbook, writing in sloppy cursive, massive blocks of nonsense "movie math" you might find on a chalkboard in a film about geniuses, sketching creatures, writing down lists of spell components and notes. In addition, I have an obvious space where the Professor once had the spell Animate Dead, but removed it from his spellbook. Was he a necromancer? Maybe. Maybe not.
** spoiler omitted **That sounds like a pretty huge gift, since the Professor was a 7th level wizard -- how many spells were in that book? Also, wouldn't he have wanted Kendra to have it?I personally made the Professor's journal his spellbook, then bequeathed his spellbook to a PC upon his death.
Seemed less heavy-handed.
Is the player or the character going to be the one to solve the puzzles?
Is the player or the character going to be the one to solve the puzzles?** spoiler omitted **That sounds like a pretty huge gift, since the Professor was a 7th level wizard -- how many spells were in that book? Also, wouldn't he have wanted Kendra to have it?I personally made the Professor's journal his spellbook, then bequeathed his spellbook to a PC upon his death.
Seemed less heavy-handed.
Spoilering because my PCs read my threads, by the way.
** spoiler omitted **Is the player or the character going to be the one to solve the puzzles?** spoiler omitted **That sounds like a pretty huge gift, since the Professor was a 7th level wizard -- how many spells were in that book? Also, wouldn't he have wanted Kendra to have it?I personally made the Professor's journal his spellbook, then bequeathed his spellbook to a PC upon his death.
Seemed less heavy-handed.
I like puzzles and riddles as well. I use similiar mechanics and try to strike a balance between rolling it out and player solutions.
** spoiler omitted **Is the player or the character going to be the one to solve the puzzles?** spoiler omitted **That sounds like a pretty huge gift, since the Professor was a 7th level wizard -- how many spells were in that book? Also, wouldn't he have wanted Kendra to have it?I personally made the Professor's journal his spellbook, then bequeathed his spellbook to a PC upon his death.
Seemed less heavy-handed.
I read the last line of the spoiler. I understand now.
