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I am wondering. I got the Improved Familiar feat at 7th level and am now 9th level. I am just curious if the Familiar gets to level it's spells up too as I level? Not to mention it's hit dice and DC's for it's spells and Breath Weapon?
Anyone know?
p.s this is for a Witch Character too. (9th level with no dip in any other class).
Thanks for any answers in advance and if you would can you also tell me where in the book it says what I can or can't do with it? Thank you!!
I am wondering. I got the Improved Familiar feat at 7th level and am now 9th level. I am just curious if the Familiar gets to level it's spells up too as I level? Not to mention it's hit dice and DC's for it's spells and Breath Weapon?
Anyone know?
To the best of my knowledge: no.
I believe that unless the feat specifies that the familiar advances beyond what they get as per the core rulebook, then the familiar uses the core rules. There is nothing mentioned about improving the spells, and a familiar doesn't gain actual hit dice when its master advances. If your DM allows you to improve the familiar's spells or other effects that might depend on the HD of the dragon, it would probably be a houserule.
According to a post by James Jacobs, familiars themselves do NOT progress at all. Their own skills, BAB and HD always remain the same. They can use their masters BAB and skill ranks for checks and attack rolls, but that doesn't change their actual stats. Likewise, they cam use their masters HD to resist effects like circle of death, but their HD do not progress, which also means no progression for poison DCs (or a silvanshee's lay on hand).
That is really really wierd.
Before that JJ post, I´ve never seen anybody give any justification
for not applying Caster´s HD to Familiar Ability DCs, etc...
That is really really wierd.
Before that JJ post, I´ve never seen anybody give any justification
for not applying Caster´s HD to Familiar Ability DCs, etc...
I agree. It most likely came up because of the relatively new silvanshee familiar.
But still, the description of the class feature actually says:
A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic.It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.
So I'd say it's RAW. I'd like some real clarification on that matter. Don't get me wrong. I respect JJ's post, but an official errata or at least a FAQ entry would be great since nobody looks for rule clarification in the off-topic forum. I only stumbled over it by accident myself.
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I don´t really see the RAW there.
It´s dead simple to say ´for effects dependent on the target´s HD, use the caster´s HD´.
But it just says ´effects related to HD´... Which ability DCs clearly are.
I posted a follow-up question to JJ on this because it seems like if that´s the party line, they really need to issue Errata. As I wrote in that post, stuff like ability boosts, bonus Feats, can be seen as part of HD *ADVANCEMENT*, and not gained automatically by treating your HD as another number, but other stuff (i.e. how every I know has been playing this) is certainly ´HD related´.
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Well, familiars and improved familiars have more things that need clarification, imo. Like:
1. Does an improved familiar possess the class skills and save bonuses listed in the familiar ability description or does it use those of its type?
2. If I get an imp at level 7, how much intelligence does he have? 9 or 13?
3. The I.F. feat says the alignment of the master must be within one step of the familiar's alignment on each axis. Many of the familiars have bestiary descriptions that list other requirements (exactly the same alignment or only within one step). Some bestiary entries don't mention any restrictions at all (such as the imp). So, judging by the feat alone, a true neutral character could get any I.F. he wants. Judging by the bestiary, it seems to vary on a case by case basis. No rule without exceptions, but I see more exception than rule here. What exactly is the ruling?
4. Can a witch get an improved familiar without losing all her spells?
Add those points to the HD matter, and I'd REALLY like to see a Familiar FAQ like the poison faq in the blog a few weeks ago.
Even more so because I'll start an AP with a witch in a few weeks.
Paizo guys? Anyone care to clarify?
I´d say it does need official FAQ/Errata...
JJ´s certainly posted stuff that ended up NOT being actual RAW/RAI
(even when I preferred his taken to what ended up being canon, e.g. Spring Attack + Vital Strike)
so while it´s simply his personal messageboard post, it isn´t enough to count as canon IMHO.
Honestly, I think asking James rules questions in the Ask James thread is a bad idea at many levels.
He´s not really the most crunch-focused guy, so why ask him in the first place?
Many many other times he has in fact been directly counter-ruled by official Errata/FAQ, so depending on him for this type of `rules interpretation` isn`t such a good idea IMHO.
(I`m saying this not in criticism of him personally, or even his opinions, but just that his APPROACH to these types of questions isn`t one that actually lays much weight to RAW or anything like that)
The entire thread`s premise is asking his off-the-top-of-his-head PERSONAL OPINION on sundry topics.
That doesn`t immediatley correlate to questions of official RAW/RAI.
The problem is obviously that very few threads in the Rules Question forum actually get official feedback...
But just because JJ is a friendly, innately helpful kind of guy who makes himself available on these boards,
doesn`t mean any and every problem people have should be shoved in front of his face to deal with,
much less his response to that should be held as some gospel.
So until there is official FAQ or Errata, I don´t lay any weight to his opinion, at least in a PFS / RAW context.
(if anybody thinks his reading is a good approach, and want to use it as house-rule, more power to ya)
I really think stuff like this belongs in the rules forum and not general discussion or off-topic. So I re-posted my points HERE. Feel free to flag them for FAQ.
The Faerie Dragon is on the improved familiar list. In the bonus beastiary it was added to the list just like the several creatures in the beastiary 2. I wish the soulbound doll was on that list though.
I interpret the familiar HD rule as not increasing the familar's spellcasting.
But, I do also agree with what James Jacobs posted and that is how I rule it in my game without having read his post.
I don't believe RAW/RAI give familiars higher DCs for poisons or other things that would improve with the familar's level and that is how I would rule it even in a setting such as PFS. I see the other interpretation as the house rule (which it is cool if people want to run in that way in there games).
"Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher."
I don't read "poison DCs" and other such abilities as what is meant by effect.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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The Faerie Dragon is on the improved familiar list. In the bonus beastiary it was added to the list just like the several creatures in the beastiary 2. I wish the soulbound doll was on that list though.Hopefully at a higher level requirement given how much more powerful it is compared to the PD.
Huh? They're both CR 2 aren't they?
EDIT: Scratch that, Pseudodragons are CR 1, I always think they're 2 for some reason.
How have they been downgraded?
OK... I was taking that as related to the DC thing.
...Which JJ subsequently amended his opinion to include HD-scaling DCs, just not spellcasting (+ feats presumably).
But again, IMHO, JJ´s opinion in ´ask JJ´ thread isn´t at all definitive as to what RAI/RAW is.
I agree that James Jacob's opinion in that thread should be held as the ultimate in RAI/RAW. That thread would be worse off if his posts were used in that way and I imagine his posts being given a lot more weight than is beneficial in an off-topic thread.
But I also don't really believe that what the opinions here are definitive to what RAI/RAW is either.