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Hi everybody, I'm reading for the first time the exceptional saga "Memory Sorrow and Thorn" by Tad Williams, and I'm thinking about writing a Pathfinder mini campaign within that so flavourful setting.
How could I "translate", in Pathfinder game terms, the races, Norns (evil elves/drow?), Trolls (dwarves/forest gnome/halfling mix?), and Sithi (elves?) above all, and the magic (particularly the Binabik shamanic bone casting and the Path of the Dreams)?
Could those of you who read the sagas help me?
Many thanks,
G. :D
This is certainly one of my favorite series. And it shouldn't be TOO hard to Pathfinderize.
The books are decidedly low magic. No wizards or clerics or other spell slingers are viable as classes.
Human are straight up the same.
The Sithi and Norns are essentially the same... just from ideologically different families. You could start with the elven race stats. They aren't as strong as humans but are certainly faster and more agile. So a dex bonus is a must followed by a str penalty. They are also considered beautiful.... even if perilously so.... so a charisma bonus is warranted. There is nothing like dark vision in the series so that could be dropped off.
The trolls are more like half-lings. You could certainly just use those stats as they are.
The FUN stuff is Ineluki's Red Hand. You could probably use wights as their basis.
Good books.. aren;t they. :)
Absolutely one of my favorite series ever. I've toyed with the idea myself.
If you want to stay really close to the books, then the elven racial traits really don't match the Sithi. They shouldn't have any stat penalties at all. They aren't weaker than humans, they aren't sicklier or clumsier or anything; I'd probably give them a racial adjustment. Remember, none of them are younger than like, what, 800 years? If they start as 1st level characters, you're going to need some good reason for them to be super retarded compared to the rest of their race. Same with the Norns (although they'd be NPCs anyway, so no big deal.)
Similarly, the trolls don't match any D&D race either. Small size, obviously, probably a bonus to Con and maybe Wisdom, and a penalty to Strength (because that's the default for all Small races). Not sure where to go from there. Possibly the halfling sure-footed trait, since they're mountain dwellers, and maybe a bonus on riding? I'll have to think about that some more.
In terms of magic, there most certainly is a lot of magic in the books, but it's very different from Pathfinder magic. I'd probably model it off the Conan RPG magic system, where it's lower-key, involves more risk, and is much more rare (except among the Sithi, where it's actually really common.) Also, dreams play a huge role in the books, so I'd look at the Wheel of Time RPG and bring in their rules for dreamwalking.
In terms of classes, the alchemist might have more of a role here than the sorcerer, although wizards and druids might still be okay. Binibik probably has at least a couple of levels in ranger, and barbarians, rogues, and fighters are obviously all okay.
I love this idea, I'll try to come up with more later.
I'm very interested in what you come up with. Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn has been a favorite of mine for many, many years, and I've read it more times than I can count.
I agree with Elf_NFB in that the Sithi and Norns are of the same race, just different cultures. Going with the elven racial traits would probably be fine. I disagree that they're less strong than humans; they seem to be better in all stats than humanity, but for game balance I'd just give them the elven bonuses.
For Dwarrows, I think that the dwarven racial traits are a good fit. I'd also extend these to the Niskies as well, although I'd switch out the bonuses to stoneworking and such with bonuses to seafaring.
I'll dissent with the suggestions so far for the Qanuc and just make them another variety of human. Although they're of dwarven size, they're clearly of human stock, and should be treated as such.
For magic, I'd make it a kind of feat-based system, with a lot of arduous pre-requisites, representing minor and subtle abilities such as bone casting or accessing the Road of Dreams, that one must master before one could use the more blatant abilities like those employed by Pryrates. I'd probably put Ineluki's use of the Art beyond the abilities of the player characters. Class-wise, I'd go with modifying the Expert into a class with a wizard-like skill list that can access these feats, which would be unavailable to other classes.
Lastly, I'd recommend an E6-style approach to a game set in Osten Ard. A 20th level fighter or such seems beyond the pale of anything in the books. (In fact, I think that very few literary settings lend themselves to standard D&D power levels.)
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I disagree that they're less strong than humans; they seem to be better in all stats than humanity, but for game balance I'd just give them the elven bonuses.
The only reason I went with a lower strength is because of the Sithi description as tall, slender and lithe. They always seem more fast than strong. But I'm not married to it. :)
I think GodEmperorDrothan is on to something, though. I'm not entirely sure Pathfinder is the best setting for a campaign. I think you could do a short set of games (3-5 at most) where your PCs don't change levels. But another game system may prove more appropriate. Savage Worlds COULD fit, but a story game setting like Burning Wheel might be better.