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I have been playing Pathfinder for a while now, I ran Rise of the Runelords for our weekly group and they loved it. 4E was left behind and we have been Pathfinding every since. Flash forward and my two youngest children are ready to play, ages 10 and 11. I needed an AP that I could scale back to PG - 13. A little violence and blood without the "adult theme" of most AP storylines.
Kingmaker has been an awesome family night game, Mom is even playing now and the kids are carving out their kingdom. Radish-drunk kobolds and rickity bridges are exciting when it's your first dungeon ever.
I just needed to post a quick thank you, this AP have been fantastic and I am glad to be a subscriber.
I have been playing Pathfinder for a while now, I ran Rise of the Runelords for our weekly group and they loved it. 4E was left behind and we have been Pathfinding every since. Flash forward and my two youngest children are ready to play, ages 10 and 11. I needed an AP that I could scale back to PG - 13. A little violence and blood without the "adult theme" of most AP storylines.
Kingmaker has been an awesome family night game, Mom is even playing now and the kids are carving out their kingdom. Radish-drunk kobolds and rickity bridges are exciting when it's your first dungeon ever.
I just needed to post a quick thank you, this AP have been fantastic and I am glad to be a subscriber.
I too, have my two daughters playing with my regular group in Kingmaker (big group - seven players), although they are a little older at 12 and 14. They are having a blast, and I don't really edit for content because of the kids (although I have the players edit their language until the kids go to bed). The one exception was that I changed the "bordello" in the kingdom building rules to "entertainment district". While my girls know prostitution exists and what it is all about, I don't see any need to throw it in their faces in the context of a game. I also think an entertainment district (a collection of bars, nightclubs, gambling houses and such, which may or may not include prostitution) is more realistic for an area being colonized by people of both sexes. The whorehouse may be one of the first things built near military bases, mining camps and other locales where there are lots more men than women and people generally are separated from their families, but it ain't anywhere the genders are roughly in balance and people have their families with them.
out of curiosity, what APs were not Pg-13?
out of curiosity, what APs were not Pg-13?
Depending on your definition of the term, in Rise of the Runelords, books 2 and 3 pushed into "R" territory for a lot of people. Though obviously the MPAA has not rated the APs themselves :-)
Depending on your definition of the term, in Rise of the Runelords, books 2 and 3 pushed into "R" territory for a lot of people. Though obviously the MPAA has not rated the APs themselves :-)out of curiosity, what APs were not Pg-13?
Oh, we've never read/played rise of the rune lords. Was it skinsaw murder type stuff that got a little crazy? there have been alot of AP's since then.
Creative Director
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We've actually had several scenes in adventures that drift into "R" territory, to be honest. We do tend to try to stay in the PG-13 realm for the most part, though.
Rise of the Runelords, being the first AP we did where we got to make our own decisions about content (as opposed to getting things approved by WotC), was somewhat experimental in that we wanted to push the boundaries. The entire AP actually contains a lot more mature content than most of our other APs as a result, but folks tend to really only notice the content of the third adventure since it's SO over the top that it overwhelms the themes in the other ones, which had some pretty mature sexual/emotional content (parts 1 and 5) and some pretty intense violence (part 2).
True, how could I forget the Halls of Lust!
I'd say that the latest issue, Trial of the Beast, has a big R-rated part near the middle of the adventure.
On the other end of the spectrum, I'd consider Legacy of Fire to be tied with Kingmaker for "most family friendly."
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Creative Director
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True, how could I forget the Halls of Lust!
I'd say that the latest issue, Trial of the Beast, has a big R-rated part near the middle of the adventure.
On the other end of the spectrum, I'd consider Legacy of Fire to be tied with Kingmaker for "most family friendly."
Since Carrion Crown is a horror-themed adventure, you can expect more R-rated elements to pop up here and then as well. We'll try to minimize them overall... but neither am I interested in blunting the impact of some elements of the AP simply to sanitize things.
That's absolutely something each individual GM can and SHOULD adjust as he wishes for his game, though—either to make Carrion Crown less or more R-Rated.
I'm not faint of heart re: movie ratings.
I'm intrigued, though, with the idea of trying to do "as much as possible" with as little as possible.
like the infamous Psycho shower scene....you never once actually see the direct gory action; it was filmed in a different time, after all.
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Creative Director
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I'm not faint of heart re: movie ratings.
I'm intrigued, though, with the idea of trying to do "as much as possible" with as little as possible.
like the infamous Psycho shower scene....you never once actually see the direct gory action; it was filmed in a different time, after all.
Movie ratings actually are a TERRIBLE way to judge the actual contents of a movie.
"The King's Speech" is rated R, for example, simply because of the use of the F-bomb more than once (you can only use that word ONCE in a PG-13 movie).
On the other hand, you've got Jaws being rated PG, and it's got nudity and gore and severed body parts and more.
The problem is that as people on the MPAA change, as times' sensibilities change, what each of the ratings actually means changes. But since the ratings themselves almost NEVER change, it causes lots of weird confusion.
Further, it causes movie makers to "game the system." Martin Scorsese, for example, puts some horrifically violent images into his movies specifically to distract the MPAA, on the theory that they'll see the scene he put in that he felt was over the top and ask him to cut it, but then will be distracted enough so that they won't ask him to cut other stuff in the movie—he'd rather cut the unnecessary gratuitous scene that doesn't add much to the movie than cut other elements that DO add to the movie, despite being very mature in nature.
And then, of course, the MPAA doesn't ask him to make the cuts at all. Which is why the head in the vise scene in "Casino" was never cut from the movie.
I certainly do understand the value of having a ratings system. I just wish it was more capable of changing and adapting to the times and to the arbitrary opinions of those at the MPAA who make the decisions. When both "Lilo and Stitch" and "Jaws" can have the same rating, or when "The King's Speech" and "Hostel 2" can have the same rating... I'm just not sure how valuable that system is.
I would first or second a G rated adventure or AP, if feasible. I have eight-year-olds (girls) that I would like to introduce to Pathfinder.
In addition to the fact that they are not ready for PG-13 content, they, quite frankly, scare easily.
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I would first or second a G rated adventure or AP, if feasible. I have eight-year-olds (girls) that I would like to introduce to Pathfinder.
In addition to the fact that they are not ready for PG-13 content, they, quite frankly, scare easily.
I could see a short arc of modules for the younger set, more than a whole AP with support and all the ancillaries. But I do imagine there'd be a market for such a product.
I believe Jaws is only PG because the PG-13 rating had not yet been invented, and the movie was not quite "hardcore" enough to be rated R. If I recall correctly, PG-13 was created in large part due to the beating-heart-removal scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, at the behest of Lucas and Spielberg, who thought an R rating would sort of defeat the purpose of making a fun family adventure yarn.
I would first or second a G rated adventure or AP, if feasible. I have eight-year-olds (girls) that I would like to introduce to Pathfinder.
In addition to the fact that they are not ready for PG-13 content, they, quite frankly, scare easily.
There's a great adventure by DUNGEON CRAWL CLASSICS called ESCAPE FROM THE FOREST OF LANTERNS. It's set in a fairy tale pocket dimension.
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Creative Director
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I believe Jaws is only PG because the PG-13 rating had not yet been invented, and the movie was not quite "hardcore" enough to be rated R. If I recall correctly, PG-13 was created in large part due to the beating-heart-removal scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, at the behest of Lucas and Spielberg, who thought an R rating would sort of defeat the purpose of making a fun family adventure yarn.
Correct.
Doesn't change the fact that Jaws is still rated PG, though.
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Well, I can personally say that the R-rated stuff in Runelords was what really turned me and my group on to the Adventure Paths.
...that MIGHT not have been the best word choice, actually. whichever.
What I mean is that I really do enjoy seeing material that pushes my buttons a little bit. That genuinely creeps me out or disturbs me. It grabs my interest. While I'm certainly not going to say that the "maturity level" of Hook Mountain should become the standard, I'd like to see a little more eff'd upedness, maybe at about the scale of Burnt Offerings. Lamashtu gives me the freaking heebie-jeebie. So does the child-goddess cult of Kaer Maga.
Though i suppose that now Pathfinder has really taken off, you're less secure in making experimental or out-there content, since now there's more people to piss off.
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Please allow me to add, that Rise of the Runelords was and is brilliant writing. I play in a group of 20 somethings with me being the old man (43). I ran Burnt Offerings and the players are hooked. We take turns running different things and there is always talk of the rotation changing to ge to part 2 of the AP. Brilliant Brilliant AP, just not for my 8 and 10 year old. Now my 19 year old son and 17 year old daughter LOVE RoTR.
I think the general tone of most AP's are in the PG-13 range, with one or two "R" themes and scenes I can edit out. But being a busy Dad, I love the fact that Kingmaker stays nearer to the PG13 range.
[If bordello becomes dance hall, where flks go to watch people "dance" the teenage kids think strip club and the 8 year old thinks "dance recital"]
The point being my wife who hasn't played in 20 years loves Pathfinder and is playing twice a week. She joined the 20 something group and family night. It has brought the family closer together and for that I thnk you.
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For kiddies, you can't really go wrong with Kingmaker or Legacy of Fire.
There are clear cut "good guys" and "bad guys" (assuming you don't muddy the waters as GM), and the basic plot (sans spoilers, no worries) are:
Legacy of Fire: Fix the past issues regarding genies & wish-magic abuse, save the world in the process.
Genies, sprites, and fairly light-hearted fun can be found throughout the game. Added plus: the first encounter is brilliantly written specifically to bring players right into the action & story.
Kingmaker: Seek out new worlds, new life, new civilizations, and boldly go where no-one has gone before. Yes, it's Star Trek (general plot design) in PF.
Hilarious low-level opponents (mites & kobolds FTW), well-written friendly NPC's (like the Levetons & Bokken), and a clear-cut mandate to "make the wilderness better" all contribute to a fantastic gaming experience.
Added plus: this is basically "create your own adventure" gaming. The timing, threat level, and overall involvement with players running the show exceeds any other written adventure I've seen.
Please allow me to add, that Rise of the Runelords was and is brilliant writing. I play in a group of 20 somethings with me being the old man (43). I ran Burnt Offerings and the players are hooked. We take turns running different things and there is always talk of the rotation changing to ge to part 2 of the AP. Brilliant Brilliant AP, just not for my 8 and 10 year old. Now my 19 year old son and 17 year old daughter LOVE RoTR.
I think the general tone of most AP's are in the PG-13 range, with one or two "R" themes and scenes I can edit out. But being a busy Dad, I love the fact that Kingmaker stays nearer to the PG13 range.
[If bordello becomes dance hall, where flks go to watch people "dance" the teenage kids think strip club and the 8 year old thinks "dance recital"]
The point being my wife who hasn't played in 20 years loves Pathfinder and is playing twice a week. She joined the 20 something group and family night. It has brought the family closer together and for that I thnk you.
Comming from someone, who in my past life, actually has managed and later owned a "dance hall", when WE discuss, come across or deal with dance hall type stuff in DnD/Pathfinder, it always seems like it's more of the 1850s-1900s (as depicted by 1950s-1980s hollywood) 'can-can' style dancing.
So it's not really a 'problem',I think the flavor or every campaign/table is based on who is there, not really the 'material' they are using. I have players that play at other tables, and I hear about how no matter what situation or characters are involved Mr. Y is always trying to 'get with' Ms. X, lot's of F Bomb and talking about it.
Honestly, I think maybe at our table the characters are barbie and ken dolls, it never really 'comes up'.
I remember early in our Pathfinder experience, during SD, playing Beta, the NPC cleric died (I really wanted to try out channeling and no one wanted to play one) they wanted to get him resurrected but, didn't have the money so, the idea was to take him to the temple of the god he worshipped, which happened to be callistria, and in Riddleport that temple doubled as a whore house, I 'painted the picture' in a greek bath house sort of way, It was shocking for 1 minute, and everyone had a chuckle about it and ran past all that to get the "loan" raise dead (someone got quested, in order to pay it back, i can't remember who).
So we all know that kind of stuff exists, but it's dulled and muted, even when it's right there.
We are LDS, we don't drink or smoke etc, but there is no reason why that kind of stuff can't exist in fantasy. We watch movies like LOTR, where Gimli and Legolas get in a drinking contest. It's more amusing than anything, not offensive.
So I really think it is all up to the table and who's at it, whether something is PG or R or what have you.
I want to highly recommend This Film is Not Yet Rated. It has some fascinating insights into the movie rating system.
Best example is the South Park creative team. When they were independent film makers, they submitted "Orgasmo" and it was rated NC-17 for too many sex toys on screen. They asked what they could do to make it "R", and the response was basically: "We give a rating. If you want to try to change things and resubmit, we'll give a new rating."
Later, when they were backed by a major film studio, doing the South Park movie they got a rating and a list of things to change to make it R. Much more helpful than the first time around. So they changed things, in many ways trying to make things worse than before. And the board just said, "Ok, they changed things we requested. It gets an R." Despite the changes not actually being improvements.
So when they did Team America: World Police, they purposefully put in things to be cut. So the supper long puppet intercourse scene in the uncut version? Purposefully put in so that they could cut it down to how they wanted it to be in the first place.
Movie ratings actually are a TERRIBLE way to judge the actual contents of a movie.
"The King's Speech" is rated R, for example, simply because of the use of the F-bomb more than once (you can only use that word ONCE in a PG-13 movie).
On the other hand, you've got Jaws being rated PG, and it's got nudity and gore and severed body parts and more.
The problem is that as people on the MPAA change, as times' sensibilities change, what each of the ratings actually means changes. But since the ratings themselves almost NEVER change, it causes lots of weird confusion.
Further, it causes movie makers to "game the system." Martin Scorsese, for example, puts some horrifically violent images into his movies specifically to distract the MPAA, on the theory that they'll see the scene he put in that he felt was over the top and ask him to cut it, but then will be distracted enough so that they won't ask him to cut other stuff in the movie—he'd rather cut the unnecessary gratuitous scene that doesn't add much to the movie than cut other elements that DO add to the movie, despite being very mature in nature.
And then, of course, the MPAA doesn't ask him to make the cuts at all. Which is why the head in the vise scene in "Casino" was never cut from the movie.
I certainly do understand the value of having a ratings system. I just wish it was more capable of changing and adapting to the times and to the arbitrary opinions of those at the MPAA who make the decisions. When both "Lilo and Stitch" and "Jaws" can have the same rating, or when "The King's Speech" and "Hostel 2" can have the same rating... I'm just not sure how valuable that system is.
I can't agree with you more.
Check out the documentary "This Film Is Not Yet Rated", if you haven't already - it answers a lot of questions about the MPAA.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493459/
Let me first say that english isn't my first language nor do i live in USA.
Now what does PG-13, R rated, G rated and MPAA mean?
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Let me first say that english isn't my first language nor do i live in USA.
Now what does PG-13, R rated, G rated and MPAA mean?
You can check out the ratings here to get a idea what they are similar to in other countries.
But a rough meaning.
PG-13 - Parental Guidance for those under 13.
R - No one under 17 not accompanied by a adult can see it.
G - all ages.
MPAA - Motion Picture Association of America, which is the rating board that rates movies.
Thank you.
Now i can re-read the thread and make some sense.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I am more interested in the ESRB rating for APs, which would be a little more appropriate for the APs.
Like Mr. James Jacobs pointed out, the MPAA ratings are not always good tools to discern content. You could look at the section below the ratings to see if they list any reason, but I remember one movie where the only reason it was R was "Non-Stop Action." The movie was in a constant state of action, but it was pretty tame in language and there was a surprising amount of modesty.
The ESRB, on the other hand, has seemed to do their jobs well in rating games appropriately. Granted, they don't seem to give out the Adult Only rating as often as I think they should (and I personally think God of War should have been rated AO.)
The problem with rating a game like Pathfinder though is that the content is controlled at the game table as much as it is by the writers. The playing experience can change drastically between groups, with one group dipping into the Adult Only rating pretty heavily and another group playing Everyone 10+.
My Kingmaker group is playing a pretty Teen rated game right now. We might venture into Mature territory as things move along, but we wont be moving too far that way.
The CotCT game I am playing has stayed at a constant Mature rating, with a couple scenes bordering on Adult. The almost Adult scenes though were mostly player created, as love, sex, and violence are some of the themes the GM has been encouraging us to explore. (Three out the five PC have love interests, two of them have had nights of passionate romance.)
No matter what the content of the game though, Paizo has been doing a kick butt job with their APs.
Further, it causes movie makers to "game the system." Martin Scorsese, for example, puts some horrifically violent images into his movies specifically to distract the MPAA, on the theory that they'll see the scene he put in that he felt was over the top and ask him to cut it, but then will be distracted enough so that they won't ask him to cut other stuff in the movie—he'd rather cut the unnecessary gratuitous scene that doesn't add much to the movie than cut other elements that DO add to the movie, despite being very mature in nature.
Parker and Stone did this with South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut. They threw a list of obscenities at the MPAA, and after the cut just repeated (over and over) the worst that made the cut. Knowing this, Uncle F**ka is a very predictable result. This memo is indicative of the process.
On the other side of the coin, Kevin Smith fought to keep a scene in Zack and Miri Make a Porno. I'm glad that he did; I feel this movie is a highly underrated piece of art. Sex is certainly a major element in the plot, but I don't know that I'd call it prurient. There are certainly some scenes in other mainstream movies to which I'd give that label though.
I certainly do understand the value of having a ratings system. I just wish it was more capable of changing and adapting to the times and to the arbitrary opinions of those at the MPAA who make the decisions. When both "Lilo and Stitch" and "Jaws" can have the same rating, or when "The King's Speech" and "Hostel 2" can have the same rating... I'm just not sure how valuable that system is.
Agreed. It's pretty sad when a site like Christian Analysis of American Culture (CAP) (which looks like a Geocities site circa 1994) actually has a more objective and useful ratings system than the MPAA. I can't really speak to the merits of the rating criteria, but the fact that it is objective is a refreshing breath of intellectual honesty.