So I have seen a few "spell combo" threads for Wizard/Sorcerer out there, but nothing with the Witch.
I would like to see what kind of combinations people have come up with for Witch spells/hexes.
As the witch has a pretty unique spell list, I can imagine a fair few combinations that might not have been able to be utilized before.
Spells/Spells
Spells/Hexes
Hexes/Hexes
Let's see what people come up with.
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Round 1- Enervation
Round 2- Evil Eye
Round 3- Misfortune
Round 4- Suffocation/Bestow Curse/Fear/Poison/Beguiling Gift/Eyebite/Slay Living
With the enervation cast they lose anywhere between 1-4 on all saves, 5-20 HP, and a penalty ranging from 1-4 on all other checks. Next evil eye ups that to a -4 on something of your choice (Always choose saves), then use misfortune which will be a very easy hex to get to function for the fact that it's saves are already in the dumps. This will en effect make is once this hex works the creature will only have something like a 5ish% chance to save against any really nasty spell of your choice, from a death effect, to a fear, all the way down to simple trickery to get them to do... well pretty much whatever it is that you want them to do.
A buddy and I have a pair of PC's planned out, he will be a full on hex focused Fitch, and I am playing a nasty Court Bard. There will never be a creature in 30 feet that will be successfully hitting our Paladin on anything other than a full attack, and even then the creature is bound to die/become disabled within 2-3 rounds.
I have been having a blast with a lot of my hexes.
I have taken the "Extra Hex" feat a few times, so I have about double my level's allotment of them. (level 4 atm)
I have been a huge fan of a two round combination:
Evil Eye (saves)/Cackle
Misfortune/Cackle
Throw in a little slumber hex like you mention and its just plain fun!
As a bonus on a fight recently, I went to a third round with Blindness/Deafness (blind, of course) and basically just stopped worrying about the enemy after that.
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Actually, Carbon D Metric bring a good point.
I'd put Evil eye first, since it works on a failure, so long as you've got cackle.
Then enervation.
Then misfortune.
Then any save or sucks that you please.
Use a Rod of Persistent Spell on step 4 if you really want to be extra mean. And you do.
A quickened Ill Omen can be nice before the evil eye or spell too. Granted it's a limited number of rerolls for poorer results, but starting out with it and following with a spell gives about the effect of a persistent spell on whatever it is you cast/use after the quickened Ill Omen.
In my experience those debuffs don't work too well in party play unless you've planned ahead with the other party members' builds.
Debuff
Debuff
Debuff
Slumber
Just doesn't work when your allies have killed the target in round two. All you've done is waste your turns effectively doing nothing.
I mean, seriously, combat only lasts from 2-5 rounds most of the time. That means you "might" get to take down one target. How many targets has the fighter archer taken out? 5? Well, you're practically worthless aren't you?*
* I don't really believe that, but that's pretty much how my party views MY witch.
Sometimes the advice on these boards are AWFUL.
I don't mean to threadjack, but anyone have good ways to use a familiar? Since a witch's familiar can deliver touch spells AND hexes, I'm wondering how you could use that potentially as part of a spell/hex combo.
Well there are multiple cases where different tactics are needed.
If you are facing a lot of foes spells like waves of fatigue, stinking cloud, and the like are good.
If you have a BBEG hiding behind a lot of mooks then you have the witch 'snipe debuff' the BBEG while the party kills the mooks. This keeps the BBEG in back from being quite the threat it could be and allows the party time to get to him.
If you are facing a single big bad target then you hit him hard with enervation (quickened if you can) and something else as a chaser (ray of exhaustion isn't bad).
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Not too much has happened yet, but we are in the midst of an all witches Age of Worms game now.
I'm sure we'll start finding new and fun ways to screw with the bad guys soon.
One I can't wait for:
(all in one round, with 5 witches going at one baddy)
Evil Eye (Saves) + Cackle
Enervate (awesomeness)
Misfortune (haha)
Some nasty little spell...from sleep on up
Obscuring Mist (to prevent reprisals)
Add in the fact that amongst us, we'll get 10 spells per level known (since it's pretty darn easy to share them around) and everyone's long-duration buff spells (mage armor for now, but there'll be more) are being cast at CL+4 thanks to coven.
I can't wait till I can grab leadership & have a real hag in the mix.
PS: Retribution Hex + Stoneskin + Rage looks extra tasty. Zap some poor baddy with Rage, ensuring your bit meatshield is protected as well as possible, then let the baddy shred himself on your friend.
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In my experience those debuffs don't work too well in party play unless you've planned ahead with the other party members' builds.
Debuff
Debuff
Debuff
SlumberJust doesn't work when your allies have killed the target in round two. All you've done is waste your turns effectively doing nothing.
I mean, seriously, combat only lasts from 2-5 rounds most of the time. That means you "might" get to take down one target. How many targets has the fighter archer taken out? 5? Well, you're practically worthless aren't you?*
* I don't really believe that, but that's pretty much how my party views MY witch.
Sometimes the advice on these boards are AWFUL.
. . .
Enervation has just dropped 1-4 negative levels on him. This helps everyone. -1-4 to all attacks, saves, etc and 5-20hp gone.
Next round you've taken his saves down by another 2 (or 4). The monk can better stunning fist, any other caster loves you, and anything else calling for a save has a better chance.
Round 3, you're forcing the baddie to roll twice on basically every d20 roll you just enervated. Now not only is he worse at hitting the tank from enervation, he has to do it twice per hit.
I'm sorry. Each of these steps helps a party, this is not "doing nothing" under any rational interpretation. Further, in the event the BBEG survives to round 4, then you can hit it with a big save or sucks.
Enervation has just dropped 1-4 negative levels on him. This helps everyone. -1-4 to all attacks, saves, etc and 5-20hp gone.
Next round you've taken his saves down by another 2 (or 4). The monk can better stunning fist, any other caster loves you, and anything else calling for a save has a better chance.
Round 3, you're forcing the baddie to roll twice on basically every d20 roll you just enervated. Now not only is he worse at hitting the tank from enervation, he has to do it twice per hit.
I'm sorry. Each of these steps helps a party, this is not "doing nothing" under any rational interpretation. Further, in the event the BBEG survives to round 4, then you can hit it with a big save or sucks.
You don't get enervation until 7th-level. Even then you might not take it as one of your spells. Even if you do, you can only cast it once or thrice a day--against a single target.
You're better off using slumber every round in the hopes that you will drop two or three enemies before the fight ends then you are DEBUFF DEBUFF DEBUFF SLUMBER a single target before the fight ends.
That's the problem with the advice on these boards. It's often given in a vacuum. The thrice debuff knockout only really works when the witch is soloing a single bad guy. That almost never happens in regular play!
Even when it does, you have to be within 30 feet. As a squishy witch, that means you will be long dead before you get your save or screw off unless you have some means of protecting yourself.
I don't mean to threadjack, but anyone have good ways to use a familiar? Since a witch's familiar can deliver touch spells AND hexes, I'm wondering how you could use that potentially as part of a spell/hex combo.
Not really a combo, but I've used my familiar to deliver a Healing hex that was needed RIGHT NOW but either I didn't have enough movement or simply couldn't get to who needed it. It helps having a familiar that can fly naturally (currently a Hawk, soon to be a Pseudodragon).
Ravingdork, it all depends on the group and the encounter. Being single-target effects, Hexes are invaluable against the Big Boss type of encounter, and extremely devalued in a big battle against lots of mooks. In the latter case, the Witch is better suited with battlefield control (Glitterdust, Web, maybe Vomit Swarm; hey that sounds like a fun combo). Or, since we're talking mooks who presumably don't have great saves to start, just start hitting them with Misfortune after Misfortune. Your allies will love it (mine do) and your DM will hate you (mine does). :-D
Raving you are Ranting now.
Enervation is a 4th level spell -- So what? That means it will never be worth using?
And you don't have to solo the encounter -- the point of debuffing is to make it easier for everyone else to win.
Which is a perfectly valid goal.
Enervation helps with this very well since it drops off attack bonuses, save bonuses, hit points, skill bonuses and generally makes the target weaker (as is implied by the name).
So as an opening round salvo it's great -- especially since you can do it from further away than 30 feet.
Raving you are Ranting now.
Enervation is a 4th level spell -- So what? That means it will never be worth using?
And you don't have to solo the encounter -- the point of debuffing is to make it easier for everyone else to win.
Which is a perfectly valid goal.
Enervation helps with this very well since it drops off attack bonuses, save bonuses, hit points, skill bonuses and generally makes the target weaker (as is implied by the name).
So as an opening round salvo it's great -- especially since you can do it from further away than 30 feet.
As Zippohisbane mentioned, it is great if you are fighting a single boss-type encounter and greatly devalued against, well, pretty much anything else.
It isn't a great spell. It is a POTENTIALLY great spell.
I'm merely being realistic, something a lot of posters forget about when they rant about their favorite spells or combos.
I'm just tired of people saying "this is an awesome trick/combo/whatever" as if it was ALWAYS a great trick/combo. Most of the time, the trick/combo is actually quite situational.
I'm sorry I didn't realize we had to start listing the obvious before posting tricks/tips/combos.
I would think that would be fairly obvious in any case.
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I figured that's what we were discussing. Not much point in a combo against RandomOrcSoldier87.5. I agree there. What was asked in the thread, though, wasn't how to play a witch in every round, but what interesting combos were available. I figured that meant a fight that could see their use to greatest effectiveness.
Besides, if I'm willing to burn a 4th level spell, it may be a tough fight, but that's what I have that spell slot for.
Not like I need extended fly =P
Sometimes the advice on these boards are AWFUL.
+10!
Boring, boring, boring. As the crones say, "It if does not make you cackle, why be a witch?"
Bombs Away
Fifth level Witch
Flight hex
spyglass
wand of Mount
For extra goodness, used Improved Familiar to gain an Air or Lightning elemental. Now your equine bombs are guided!
Familiar Turret
the usual familiar Share Spells ability
Lesser Rod of Extend Metamagic
Burning Gaze
Vomit Swarm
For extra goodness, since the familiar is using both its standard and move actions each round, have the familiar ride on a druid or mounted warrior, preferably in a padded metal box with only its head sticking out!
Catch 'Em with their Pants Down
quickened Ill Omen
Lesser Rod of Persistent Metamagic
Beguiling Gift
vial of Alchemist's Glue mixed with ground hot pepper, labeled "Orcish Anal Lube"
For extra goodness, have additional vials labeled "Tonsil Salve" and "Eye Ointment" to use against armored foes.
Jaws Should Not Unfold Like That!
Leadership Feat
Cohort with Witch 1 / Court Bard 1 / Summoner 3
(The cohort's familiar is useful for "backing up" known spells. The cohort uses its Satire performance. The eidolon has Weapon Focus (Bite), Dazzling Display, and the evolution Skilled (Intimidate). The Witch waits until they act, then uses his or her favorite area debuff.)
For extra goodness, use the conjuration trio of Glitterdust (Will), Web (Reflex), and Stinking Cloud (Fortitude) to take advantage of the major foes' weak save, boosted by Heighten Spell one level on Glitterdust and Web, Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Spell Focus (Conjuration), and a Lesser Rod of Persistent Metamagic.
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Bombs Away
Fifth level Witch
Flight hex
spyglass
wand of Mount
For extra goodness, used Improved Familiar to gain an Air or Lightning elemental. Now your equine bombs are guided!
That worked better in 1st edition, when you could create an elephant with the mount spell, and when the rules didn't forbid you from conjuring something up in the air that didn't have a natural flight speed.
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It would rock if there was some sort of 'Widen Hex' feat that allowed a witch to affect more than one target with a Misfortune, Evil Eye, Slumber, Healing or Agony type hex.
I think that the Debuff + Save or Suck combo works better when you do it with another caster in the party, because it takes only 1 round instead of 2 or 3.
That worked better in 1st edition, when...the rules didn't forbid you from conjuring something up in the air that didn't have a natural flight speed.
They do? Bummer.
Spite + vampiric touch.
Never thought of that one. I'm going to use it if my Witch ever reach level 5. Thank you sir!
Step 1: Craft wand -> wand of ill omen
Step 2: Improved familiar -> imp/quasit/mephit/anything with hands
Step 3: get a high umd rank
Profit: no need for quicken spell. Just have you familiar delay his action (using the wand) until just before you use a save or suck of your choice.
Summon Monster III (Lantern Archon with Aura of Menace) + Evil Eye + Demoralize Opponent + Misfortune + Ray of Enfeeblement + Ray of Exhaustion + Bestow Curse + Crushing Despair.
After all that, kill your opponent with unarmed strikes to humiliate him even more. :D
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Summon Monster III (Lantern Archon with Aura of Menace) + Evil Eye + Demoralize Opponent + Misfortune + Ray of Enfeeblement + Ray of Exhaustion + Bestow Curse + Crushing Despair.
After all that, kill your opponent with unarmed strikes to humiliate him even more. :D
I am doing this in our all witches game, for sures!
That's a 1 round affair with Familiars & Cohorts adding their actions in...
That worked better in 1st edition, when...the rules didn't forbid you from conjuring something up in the air that didn't have a natural flight speed.They do? Bummer.
Well, I have apparently failed my Perception check, being unable to locate that "no aerial conjuring of non-flying creatures" rule.
Would someone kindly provide a link, page number, or section/paragraph?
Thanks!
It's in the much neglected and skimmed over magic section.
It's in the much neglected and skimmed over magic section.
Thanks!
Glad to.
It's in the much neglected and skimmed over magic section.
Well, Floating Disk supports 100 pounds per CL, and has a duration of one hour per CL.
An average pony weighs 600 to 1,000 pounds. A light horse weighs about 1,000 pounds.
A wondrous item or ring of daily CL 10 Floating Disk would provide ten hours of Floating Disk that can support a pony or light horse, for a cost of:
1 {spell level} * 10 {CL} * 1,800 {command word} / 5 {daily} = 3,600 gp
That's not too expensive for a way to have equine aerial bombardment.
If you already link to the spell description, I suggest reading it while you're at it ;)
The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level.
So unless you want to use a 3600 gp item to squash some ants, it won't wok all that well. :P
If you already link to the spell description, I suggest reading it while you're at it ;)
The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level.So unless you want to use a 3600 gp item to squash some ants, it won't wok all that well. :P
Oh, blat. Tired brain combine with my AD&D background to produce Pathfinder Fail.
Oh well, maybe next time.