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Okay... Just a clarifying questions regarding some demons' and devils' (and others) ability to summon their own kind. Am I right in assuming that these summoned creatures, from their summonig ability, not the spell, are abel to teleport. The spell list teleport as a no-no, wheras the summoning ability only goes on to say that they can't further summon creatures and are prohibited from using spellcomponents more costly than 1gp.
Did that make sense?
Thanks.
PS The answer is needed for a game tonight. I really don't ant to fight my players too much for this ;-P
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I don't know if a official reply exist.
From my point of view ad a GM the summoning power of outsider is more akin to Planar Ally than the summon monster spell (even if the description explicitly use summon monster as a reference).
So the outsider doing the summoning hasn't complete control on the summoned creature and the creatures can use most of their powers freely.
Allowing the use of the teleport ability will increase the difficulty of an encounter with outsider, so you should gauge your players capabilities.
they cannnot teleport. there are two ways to bring creatures from other planes. summoned or called. the sla summons them, ergo no teleporting. it would far too strong as they would also ignore protection from evil that werevthe case.
Why would retaining the ability to teleport result in protection from evil not working?
Why should the teleport ability be any different from the other abilities the creature has? The summon ability specifically bars the use of the creature's own summon ability, and of any spell or SLA with a material component of 1 gp or more. Teleport doesn't fall under either of these exceptions, and the summoned creature can thus use it freely.
Teleporting summons have even been used in published adventures.
Why should the teleport ability be any different from the other abilities the creature has?
Because of this line:
A creature with the summon ability can summon other specific creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature's entry).
(Emphasis mine.) And this line:
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities.
(Again, emphasis mine.) It's up to the GM to parse what "much as though casting a summon monster spell" means, of course.
That is a good reason. I don't see why that part of the sentence couldn't have been added to the universal monster rules entry on the "summon" ability, but it certainly seems to apply.
That's what I get for not checking up on things in another book when I look up a rule :)
Why should the teleport ability be any different from the other abilities the creature has?Because of this line:
A creature with the summon ability can summon other specific creatures of its kind much as though casting a summon monster spell, but it usually has only a limited chance of success (as specified in the creature's entry).(Emphasis mine.) And this line:
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities.(Again, emphasis mine.) It's up to the GM to parse what "much as though casting a summon monster spell" means, of course.
I am aware of both places from which you quoted. The emphasis on much as though could as well mean that it's like summon monster, but not quite. Anywho... She didn't get to summon any friends last night anyway... ;-)
The summoning ability is an SLA which works just like the summoning spells. That means they have the same restrictions.
In order for a monster to have full access to its abilities it must be called which is done by planar ally/planar binding/gate.
@ARE:In what publish adventures have summoned creatures teleported? I am sure such an error would have been caught, and if not sometimes authors are able to say they messed up. By the rules it can't be done.
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In a game where magic plays such a huge and central role I always find it ironic that very few players read the Magic chapter of the book. My own table of players have been playing for years but simple understanding of things like line of effect, the area/target/effect line of spell descriptions, how the schools of magic work are always things I have to point out again and again! Sigh...
--Schoolhouse Vrock.
I am aware of both places from which you quoted. The emphasis on much as though could as well mean that it's like summon monster, but not quite.
Yep, it's as clear as mud. I was just giving Are some background on the issue.
I am aware of both places from which you quoted. The emphasis on much as though could as well mean that it's like summon monster, but not quite.Yep, it's as clear as mud. I was just giving Are some background on the issue.
I love that expression... Clear as mud :D
@ARE:In what publish adventures have summoned creatures teleported? I am sure such an error would have been caught, and if not sometimes authors are able to say they messed up. By the rules it can't be done.
It was in one of the Age of Worms modules, but I can't remember which one at the moment. IIRC, it was an ambush set-up, where the summoned devils teleported to the party. Their tactics said something to the effect that if they took a good amount of damage, they would teleport away, heal up, and then teleport back in.
It's possible that I'm simply misremembering this whole thing though.
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@ARE:In what publish adventures have summoned creatures teleported? I am sure such an error would have been caught, and if not sometimes authors are able to say they messed up. By the rules it can't be done.It was in one of the Age of Worms modules, but I can't remember which one at the moment. IIRC, it was an ambush set-up, where the summoned devils teleported to the party. Their tactics said something to the effect that if they took a good amount of damage, they would teleport away, heal up, and then teleport back in.
It's possible that I'm simply misremembering this whole thing though.
My guess is you're talking about the Blessed Angels Erinyes... Those devils weren't Summoned, they were Called so they could use their powers freely.
--Vrock the House!
My guess is you're talking about the Blessed Angels Erinyes... Those devils weren't Summoned, they were Called so they could use their powers freely.
No, it wasn't those. Those are much later in the AP than the encounter I'm referring to.
It seems to be a viable tactic.
Joriavah in CoT is using that move. I thought I'd seen it somewhere but we are just getting to that part so I only reread it just now...
My guess is you're talking about the Blessed Angels Erinyes... Those devils weren't Summoned, they were Called so they could use their powers freely.
No, it wasn't those. Those are much later in the AP than the encounter I'm referring to.
I located the encounter I was referring to (the beginning of "Spire of Long Shadows"), but it turned out that I did misremember it; the devils weren't summoned.