Metamagic and Channel Energy


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

I'll preface this all by saying I'm almost brand new to pathfinder, but I wasn't able to find a confirmation of this in the rules.

My understanding is that Channel Energy is a supernatural ability, and as such it will be treated as magic but *not* as a spell. Therefore metamagic abilities would not affect channel energy, so it is not possible to use Quicken or Empower on Channel Energy.

It's also my understanding that there is no Society approved translation for Divine Metamagic, and as such Channel Energy cannot be expended to lower the cost of a metamagic feat that is applied to a spell. Am I correct about these two assumptions?

More or less I've made a cleric and I'm trying to maximize the amount of healing I can do. So far I haven't really found any feats that will help me maximize healing, and nothing that will be genuinely useful except the Healing Domain level 6 power and the Phylactery of Channel Positive Energy (is this Society approved?).

Grand Lodge

You are correct about Channel not being a spell, and ineligible for Metamagic.

I can't think of other useful things off the top of my head either. The Phylactery is Society legal, but as an 11000 gp item you either need to find one on a Chronicle, or have 27 TPA before you can purchase it.

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LordZod wrote:
More or less I've made a cleric and I'm trying to maximize the amount of healing I can do. So far I haven't really found any feats that will help me maximize healing, and nothing that will be genuinely useful except the Healing Domain level 6 power and the Phylactery of Channel Positive Energy (is this Society approved?).

If you haven't actually started your cleric yet, you might want to consider playing a life oracle instead. They can get quite a few class abilities that help with healing.

Liberty's Edge

If I recall correctly, there are several feats that modify channeling and/or enhance channeling.

Channel Smite, Elemental Channel, Extra Channel, Improved Channel, & Selective Channeling.

For a healing cleric, Extra Channel would give you more channels per day, and Selective Channeling lets you choose whom to hit in your area of effect. Both helpful so that you don't heal your foes or injure your undead allies.

The Exchange

But you can only take Extra Channel once.

Is there any plans to do the channel substitution for metamagics? i.e.-burning channels to metamagic a spell.


I doubt it. Divine metamagic was widely seen to be extremely and terminally OP and not very well thought out.

-S

Liberty's Edge

Am I right in thinking that I wouldn't be able to buy the Phylactery with gold even after I've accrued 27 TPA, and that I would only be able to buy it with CPA?

Grand Lodge

Of course, there also may be legal issues if DMM is non-OGL.

Liberty's Edge

LordZod wrote:
Am I right in thinking that I wouldn't be able to buy the Phylactery with gold even after I've accrued 27 TPA, and that I would only be able to buy it with CPA?

just need TPA, to determine your spending limit

The Exchange

Shieldknight wrote:

But you can only take Extra Channel once.

Is there any plans to do the channel substitution for metamagics? i.e.-burning channels to metamagic a spell.

I was unaware that you could only take Extra Channel once. For some reason I thought it worked just like all the other "Extra" feats. Hero Lab never corrected me either...

Liberty's Edge

I just can't wait for the first time I can cast a Selective Spell Fireball on my healbot Cleric w/ Fire Domain and Magical Lineage (Fireball) and ruin the GM's fun. The best part is it will still be a level 3 spell. Build otherwise entitled how to have respectable AoE healing with party-friendly area effect damage. And it was all made possible by Phylactery of Channel Positive energy.

Yes, I am infact a horrible person.

Grand Lodge

LordZod wrote:

I just can't wait for the first time I can cast a Selective Spell Fireball on my healbot Cleric w/ Fire Domain and Magical Lineage (Fireball) and ruin the GM's fun. The best part is it will still be a level 3 spell. Build otherwise entitled how to have respectable AoE healing with party-friendly area effect damage. And it was all made possible by Phylactery of Channel Positive energy.

Yes, I am infact a horrible person.

Sounds like fun!

Of course, you would have to be 10th level to get that combo (or actually, 11th when you get a feat). By then, your fireball is maxed out.


K Neil Shackleton wrote:
By then, your fireball is maxed out.

And 50% of creatures are either resistant to fire, have really good saves, or incorporeal... but if direct damage is your way of having fun, GO FOR IT!

The Exchange

Joseph Caubo wrote:
Shieldknight wrote:

But you can only take Extra Channel once.

Is there any plans to do the channel substitution for metamagics? i.e.-burning channels to metamagic a spell.

I was unaware that you could only take Extra Channel once. For some reason I thought it worked just like all the other "Extra" feats. Hero Lab never corrected me either...

It's the only "Extra" feat that doesn't have the Special heading of being able to take it multiple times. Our group has looked at this and all the errata and it hasn't changed. Since it doesn't have the special ability of taking multiple times, it therefore must be meant to be taken only once.

I'll gladly step aside and stand corrected if I'm wrong, but that's the way we have interpreted it.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Shieldknight wrote:
Joseph Caubo wrote:
Shieldknight wrote:

But you can only take Extra Channel once.

Is there any plans to do the channel substitution for metamagics? i.e.-burning channels to metamagic a spell.

I was unaware that you could only take Extra Channel once. For some reason I thought it worked just like all the other "Extra" feats. Hero Lab never corrected me either...

It's the only "Extra" feat that doesn't have the Special heading of being able to take it multiple times. Our group has looked at this and all the errata and it hasn't changed. Since it doesn't have the special ability of taking multiple times, it therefore must be meant to be taken only once.

I'll gladly step aside and stand corrected if I'm wrong, but that's the way we have interpreted it.

Our group too is wondering on this very topic. It seems a bit odd that "Extra Channel" is the only Extra feat in the core rulebook and APG which doesn't specify you can take it more than once. I hope this is an over sight.

The Exchange

LtlBtyRam wrote:
Shieldknight wrote:
Joseph Caubo wrote:
Shieldknight wrote:

But you can only take Extra Channel once.

Is there any plans to do the channel substitution for metamagics? i.e.-burning channels to metamagic a spell.

I was unaware that you could only take Extra Channel once. For some reason I thought it worked just like all the other "Extra" feats. Hero Lab never corrected me either...

It's the only "Extra" feat that doesn't have the Special heading of being able to take it multiple times. Our group has looked at this and all the errata and it hasn't changed. Since it doesn't have the special ability of taking multiple times, it therefore must be meant to be taken only once.

I'll gladly step aside and stand corrected if I'm wrong, but that's the way we have interpreted it.
Our group too is wondering on this very topic. It seems a bit odd that "Extra Channel" is the only Extra feat in the core rulebook and APG which doesn't specify you can take it more than once. I hope this is an over sight.

I don't think it is an oversight, unfortunately. The question's been asked in at least 6 or 7 places since the first edition of the core rulebook. There've been three printings of the book and it's never been changed or errated. My guess is that it's intentional and not an oversight. (I've noticed Paizo staff tend to not answer a question when they think the answer is obvious.)

I'm glad someone brought this up, though--because I hadn't noticed the wording on the feat either and probably never would have. I play a healbot cleric, so this was a wake up call. I think it was Shield Knight who originally said it? Thanks, Shield Knight!


teribithia9 wrote:


I don't think it is an oversight, unfortunately. The question's been asked in at least 6 or 7 places since the first edition of the core rulebook.

If there is a definittive ruling on this could you point us to the forum thread please. I admit my search fu is not the greatest, but I have looked. I have not found anywhere that says yea or nay, just that is has been brought up several times.

Liberty's Edge

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LtlBtyRam wrote:
just that is has been brought up several times.

that is all there is

The Exchange

LtlBtyRam wrote:
teribithia9 wrote:


I don't think it is an oversight, unfortunately. The question's been asked in at least 6 or 7 places since the first edition of the core rulebook.
If there is a definittive ruling on this could you point us to the forum thread please. I admit my search fu is not the greatest, but I have looked. I have not found anywhere that says yea or nay, just that is has been brought up several times.

As I said above, I've noticed Paizo staff tend to not answer a question when they think the answer is obvious. I haven't seen a paizo staffer answer this question any of the times it's been asked (including this thread). That, and the fact that it has never been changed in three printings of the book, leads me to believe they think that the answer is obvious. (It's not an oversight--they really intend you to only be able to take it once.)


If you could take it mutiple times, human clerics would be the ultimate low-level healbots. They already introduced channel energy as a means of healing so as to free up clerical spells for things other than healing. Making this feat stackable goes waay too far the other way.

Shadow Lodge

TwoWolves wrote:


If you could take it mutiple times, human clerics would be the ultimate low-level healbots. They already introduced channel energy as a means of healing so as to free up clerical spells for things other than healing. Making this feat stackable goes waay too far the other way.

Apparently Ultimate Magic is adding a Quicken Channel feat to make Channeling even better:)

The Exchange

Decorus wrote:
TwoWolves wrote:


If you could take it mutiple times, human clerics would be the ultimate low-level healbots. They already introduced channel energy as a means of healing so as to free up clerical spells for things other than healing. Making this feat stackable goes waay too far the other way.

Apparently Ultimate Magic is adding a Quicken Channel feat to make Channeling even better:)

Of COURSE they are (since my cleric is leveling out of PFS next month!). Guess I have to make my life oracle, now, huh?

Liberty's Edge

My guess is that in case something like DMM ever gets a PF version, that they want to keep a soft-cap on the limit of daily channels to avoid a rebirth of Codzilla. Quicken Channel needed to happen, hopefully we'll get an Empower Channel or Maximize Channel as well.

Just the same couldn't any Life Oracle (with the Channel Energy revelation) also take any of the channeling feats? I'd assume that for pre-requisites sake this counts as having the Class Feature.


LordZod wrote:

My guess is that in case something like DMM ever gets a PF version, that they want to keep a soft-cap on the limit of daily channels to avoid a rebirth of Codzilla. Quicken Channel needed to happen, hopefully we'll get an Empower Channel or Maximize Channel as well.

Just the same couldn't any Life Oracle (with the Channel Energy revelation) also take any of the channeling feats? I'd assume that for pre-requisites sake this counts as having the Class Feature.

You think that Quicken, Empower and Maximize was the worse the CoDzilla could do? I tell you only this: Persistent Spell just before sleeping.

Liberty's Edge

Clericzilla wasn't so OP if you had the kind of DM that liked to have monsters dispel buffs or invoke antimagic fields. Or you know, have a beholder arbitrarily come along.


LordZod wrote:
Clericzilla wasn't so OP if you had the kind of DM that liked to have monsters dispel buffs or invoke antimagic fields. Or you know, have a beholder arbitrarily come along.

He still had to beat the cleric's caster level, and a good player could boost his caster level to a really high number. Beholders are iconic, but after looking at their save DC's a few weeks ago they are not all that tough.

The Exchange

LordZod wrote:

My guess is that in case something like DMM ever gets a PF version, that they want to keep a soft-cap on the limit of daily channels to avoid a rebirth of Codzilla. Quicken Channel needed to happen, hopefully we'll get an Empower Channel or Maximize Channel as well.

Just the same couldn't any Life Oracle (with the Channel Energy revelation) also take any of the channeling feats? I'd assume that for pre-requisites sake this counts as having the Class Feature.

Any life oracle that takes the channel energy revelation, yes. That's my plan. Just haven't actually played her yet. I'm going to miss having 8d6 for channels...

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