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I've decided to retire my Tiefling Alchemist. He reached 5th level last session, and I came to a realization that I'm not really having much fun with him anymore, and he'd be better setting up his own shop and becoming an NPC.
So, I'm looking to make a new character. I typically play Wizard type characters, and I'm looking to try something new. What I do know that I would like to play is a buffer/debuffer.
What do you suggest?
What is in the party currently? Point buy? Any house rules?
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We currently have a melee druid, cleric, sword and board fighter, bow ranger, two weapon rogue, starsoul sorcerer, a dwarf monk, and myself.
CRB + APG, dice roll variant for point buy (too long to explain, but I'll go with 20 point buy for simplicities sake), and no house rules of note.
I'm really just looking at what race/class/option combinations would be best for a buffer/debuffer..
A bard or witch? With 7 allies, your bardic buffing would be really useful. It would also give a little more arcane support. Maybe go elf and do archery? I think (think) the witch is a pretty good de-buffer, what with all the hexes. And some are kind of buffy too. Both are also good backup healers if the cleric and druid go down, and the ranger doesn't have a wand of CLW yet.
My first response is bard. They are some of the best buffers in the game, and pretty good debuffers as well. With 7 other party members, your buffs will have a multiplying effect. I also wouldn't bother with any of the archetypes, as most of them you give up inspire courage, which for you is going to be big.
Race-wise, I'd say either human or gnome (if you want to focus on illusions), although if there is a bestiary race you want to try, and it has a positive charisma, it can't hurt. You don't really have a loremaster in the party, so the extra skill points are going to be useful. It also gives you the chance for the favored class bonus of extra spell known if there is a spell you really want to have.
str 12, dex 13, con 10 int 14 wis 10 cha 16 (+2) = 18
feats: weapon focus: whip, dazzling display, Combat expertise, lingering performance or improved trip
Skills: Perform: Comedy (Counts as bluff and intimidate), perform: Oratory (Counts as diplomacy and sense motive), Perform: Dance (Counts as acrobatics and fly), use magic device, spellcraft, two knowledges maxed, remaining skill points dropped into other knowledge and skills.
Spells known: 0th level: detect magic, read magic, prestidigitation, daze, mage hand, mending. 1st level: cure light wounds, grease, silent image, vanish 2nd level: Hold person, sound burst, silence.
First round, start your inspire courage, then either cast vanish on the rogue, sound burst a group (for stun), hold person, grease or silence magic users. You can also use your whip for dazzling display (intimdate all within 30') or tripping.
We currently have a melee druid, cleric, sword and board fighter, bow ranger, two weapon rogue, starsoul sorcerer, a dwarf monk, and myself.
CRB + APG, dice roll variant for point buy (too long to explain, but I'll go with 20 point buy for simplicities sake), and no house rules of note.
I'm really just looking at what race/class/option combinations would be best for a buffer/debuffer..
Svirfneblin alchemist. Im having a ton of fun with mine, and he's only level 3 :) I do have a 2 in charisma ( 2 is the stat, not the modifier :)) and i dont speak common, so there is tons of RP fun on top of him throwing wild bombs.
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What I do know that I would like to play is a buffer/debuffer.
What do you suggest?
Witch. The Witch is so much fun from a debuff and buff perspective, and they don't run out of steam. If that's the thing you want to do, witch is the way to go, though, as others have pointed out, bard works quite good, too, but tends to be more limited to buffing. The witch is a better mix and match, in my opinion.
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That Bard really is so very tempting, Dilvias. But the Witch also is too.. Oh the choices..
If I chose Witch, how's this sound:
Human Witch
Scorpion familiar
Feats: scribe scroll, imp. init., combat casting, and extra hex
Skills: intimidate, heal, spellcraft, umd, fly, k:arcana, k:planes, k:history
Hex: evil eye, misfortune, cackle, slumber
Ability priority: Int, Dex, Con, Wis, Cha, Str
Patron: agility
Favored Class: extra familiar spells
A witch with a longspear might be fun. You can help the rogue flank, still be within a reasonable range with your hexes (30 feet, right?), and probably not get hit too much.
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Might be an interesting chance to try out a battle herald....
That does sound interesting, thank you for the idea. I'm pretty set for the witch idea now, so I'll keep this idea for my next character =)
Svirfneblin alchemist. Im having a ton of fun with mine, and he's only level 3 :) I do have a 2 in charisma ( 2 is the stat, not the modifier :)) and i dont speak common, so there is tons of RP fun on top of him throwing wild bombs.
I'm not sure if you read the first part of my OP, but the character that I'm retiring is, in fact, an alchemist. I had fun with him at first, but quickly realized I didn't have the patience for him to get to Master Chymist to play off the "dr jeckyl/mr hyde" idea. He ended up being nothing more than an arsonist and alchemical item (and poison) crafter. Turned out, all he was looked to was his bombs. I ended up not liking that, as it quickly became old.
A witch with a longspear might be fun. You can help the rogue flank, still be within a reasonable range with your hexes (30 feet, right?), and probably not get hit too much.
That's not a bad idea. I'll keep a longspear on me for just that reason.
I'm looking forward for this character to be more "supportive" than the individualist my alchemist was. Buffing the party with (eventually) haste, and debuffing the enemy with various hexes.
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That Bard really is so very tempting, Dilvias. But the Witch also is too.. Oh the choices..
If I chose Witch, how's this sound:
Human Witch
Scorpion familiar
Feats: scribe scroll, imp. init., combat casting, and extra hex
Skills: intimidate, heal, spellcraft, umd, fly, k:arcana, k:planes, k:history
Hex: evil eye, misfortune, cackle, slumber
Ability priority: Int, Dex, Con, Wis, Cha, Str
Patron: agility
Favored Class: extra familiar spells
I like your feat choices. You should take a look at the Fortune hex too. It was very effective. The players used it for attacks for the most part, but sometimes they would use it for saving throws too.
I took Fortune and Cackle at 1st level (along with Scribe Scroll), then Evil Eye at 2nd.
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The only worry I might raise with the witch idea (because they are brutally effective debuffers) is that, if you were having issues with your alchemist being a one-note character, you might well run into similar issues with a witch. Swapping fortune in place of misfortune will help, but given that most combats usually only give a character the chance for maybe 4 actions, don't be surprised if you find yourself using evil eye + cackle a lot. Evil eye + misfortune + cackle is so powerful a combinaton that you would pretty much never not use it, but even as you are, the witch's potent at-wills have, in my experience, tended to really shape the character's play choices, making them very repetitive.
I hope that this turns out not to be the case for you...
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Thank you for the concern. The issue I had (mainly) with my Alchemist, is that I initially made him to focus on ranged combat for the first 10 levels of his career. I made a slight mistake in making him a Tiefling instead of Elf in that regard, but instead of changing my mind, I stuck with it, and tried to focus on throw anything instead. Somewhere along the lines, I thought it'd be a great idea to pick up alchemy focus and master alchemist feats, and made it so he could make 90+ alchemist flasks in a week (at level 5). Though this was great, in that, I could now make poisons in a matter of a couple days, which I wanted to do greatly. I ended up kinda doing that on the side, in the rare occasion I had down time. Which, for a "kick down the door" style campaign, really doesn't give much down time.
I ended up taking the explosive bomb and precise bomb discoveries. Each round of combat essentially ran like this: move within the closest range I can manage (usually ends up being 2 to 4 range increments away from enemy), pick out one enemy, bomb the hell out of him and try to get as many of his friends as possible.. until they're all dead, or I run out of bombs (which rarely happened).
tldr: I made my alchemist with RP in mind, but ended up playing him differently. Now that's what I'm stuck with, and I'm unhappy with it. It seems that all he does is bomb the crap out of stuff, and that's not what I wanted to do.
Also, there's no real "party cohesion", so I'm hoping someone like this witch will bring the party together..