Ok, say I want to make a thrown weapon specialist.
Of course I'm going to look into putting the returning property on the weapon(s) if I do so, since nobody can afford to toss out an infinite number of enchanted weapons.
So here's the rules:
Returning
Aura Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus.
Description
This ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown.
A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature's next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can't catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
So my question amounts to, what happens if you try to use multiple returning weapons? Is it even possible? Do you have to try to stow them in between shots? Can you just toss them back out as they come in like you're juggling?
I'd say this is a fairly crucial call as to whether it is even possible to make a viable thrown weapons build.
I would say you can catch as many as you can hold in your hands which is most likely limited to two. The others would just drop at your feet.
Given that it returns just before the turn (when you can't actually take a free action yet), and catching it is a free action, I'd rule that you can catch one in each hand (as per wraithstrike's opinion), but that if you throw it again, stow it (if you have a way to stow it as a free action), or drop it during that turn you can catch another with another free action. If you move at all, they're now out of reach and you can't catch them.
Given that it returns just before the turn (when you can't actually take a free action yet), and catching it is a free action, I'd rule that you can catch one in each hand (as per wraithstrike's opinion), but that if you throw it again, stow it (if you have a way to stow it as a free action), or drop it during that turn you can catch another with another free action. If you move at all, they're now out of reach and you can't catch them.
Yeah, it is explicit that moving will hose you.
Of course I don't really know that there is a way to stow anything as a free action (I found an old thread about sheathing in the archive, and that's a move action).
So it sounds to me like at best a thrower will be able to toss two items, and has to have both hands free to even do that.
Hence a thrower really isn't all that viable.
I wonder if there's a way to get an official ruling on this, since we're just speculating.
Given that it returns just before the turn (when you can't actually take a free action yet), and catching it is a free action, I'd rule that you can catch one in each hand (as per wraithstrike's opinion), but that if you throw it again, stow it (if you have a way to stow it as a free action), or drop it during that turn you can catch another with another free action. If you move at all, they're now out of reach and you can't catch them.Yeah, it is explicit that moving will hose you.
Of course I don't really know that there is a way to stow anything as a free action (I found an old thread about sheathing in the archive, and that's a move action).
So it sounds to me like at best a thrower will be able to toss two items, and has to have both hands free to even do that.
Hence a thrower really isn't all that viable.
I wonder if there's a way to get an official ruling on this, since we're just speculating.
I kindof like the mental image of someone standing in one spot and just tossing returning weapons, having them bounce off the target (doing their damage), catching them when they come back, and throwing them again immediately. Kindof like a pair of jugglers tossing pins or torches back and forth, except the one on the other end is getting hurt by it all. But yeah, if the build even needed to take a 5' step, he'd lose it all, and when combat ended, or if he ever was unable to take a full attack, he'd have to drop all the extras and pick them up.
I kindof like the mental image of someone standing in one spot and just tossing returning weapons, having them bounce off the target (doing their damage), catching them when they come back, and throwing them again immediately. Kindof like a pair of jugglers tossing pins or torches back and forth, except the one on the other end is getting hurt by it all. But yeah, if the build even needed to take a 5' step, he'd lose it all, and when combat ended, or if he ever was unable to take a full attack, he'd have to drop all the extras and pick them up.
Quickdraw lets you throw as many weapons as you have attacks per round. I think it would be fair to allow a thrower with that feat to throw the same two weapons twice in a round (with 4 attacks). He'd need TWF to avoid a big off-hand penalty, but the idea is just so cool, I'd allow it.
Thrown weapons are kinda nerfed (with good reason; Ever tried to throw a knife well enough to make it stick?), but the visual is appealing.
You could try to ask your GM if you can hold more than 1 dagger in your off-hand. (This would lessen the benefit of quick-draw). See if he'd let you catch weapons with your main hand as a free action, transfer them to your off hand as another free action. Maybe he'll let you do this if you take quick-draw.
By RAW though, you're screwed. So appeal to his sense of fun. Its not like a thrown weapon build is going to be game-breaking.
I kindof like the mental image of someone standing in one spot and just tossing returning weapons, having them bounce off the target (doing their damage), catching them when they come back, and throwing them again immediately. Kindof like a pair of jugglers tossing pins or torches back and forth, except the one on the other end is getting hurt by it all. But yeah, if the build even needed to take a 5' step, he'd lose it all, and when combat ended, or if he ever was unable to take a full attack, he'd have to drop all the extras and pick them up.Quickdraw lets you throw as many weapons as you have attacks per round. I think it would be fair to allow a thrower with that feat to throw the same two weapons twice in a round (with 4 attacks). He'd need TWF to avoid a big off-hand penalty, but the idea is just so cool, I'd allow it.
Actually it's not possible to use a returning weapon more than once a round due to how returning works. To get four attacks, you would need four weapons.
Thrown weapons are kinda nerfed (with good reason; Ever tried to throw a knife well enough to make it stick?), but the visual is appealing.
Actually I've played with knives specifically made as throwing knives and they fly and stick pretty darned well.
Though the build I really have in mind is build around the chakram which has a nice big damage die(d8), and allows you to use it as a melee weapon as well (at a -1). I was hoping to figure out a shield+thrown weapon build to make something like a pillbox effect. This would be an interesting fighter build since you can stack all your specialization feats onto one weapon and get versatile benefits.
It is possible someone might object to thrown chakram and melee chakram both benefiting from the bonuses though.
Though the build I really have in mind is build around the chakram which has a nice big damage die(d8), and allows you to use it as a melee weapon as well (at a -1). I was hoping to figure out a shield+thrown weapon build to make something like a pillbox effect. This would be an interesting fighter build since you can stack all your specialization feats onto one weapon and get versatile benefits.
It is possible someone might object to thrown chakram and melee chakram both benefiting from the bonuses though.
I'd call this one a hard-sell. Not only is your shield hand occupied with a shield, you're wanting to throw chakrams that return fast enough to throw it multiple times. Maybe if you call yourself Xena will he let you get away with it :P
On the other hand: You would most definitely get bonuses to a chakram for both throwing/meleeing with it. Same as if you had a magic dagger.
Maybe you could make a magical bandolier that automatically catches your thrown weapons as they return. Then with the quickdraw feat, you'd be able use them again next turn.
Maybe you could make a magical bandolier that automatically catches your thrown weapons as they return. Then with the quickdraw feat, you'd be able use them again next turn.
While that would be possible in a home campaign(assuming a compliant GM), I've been thinking about PFS builds.
You may use quickdraw to sheathe a weapon as a free action assuming the object is stored in an easy reach container.
The Actions in Combat table specifies draw a weapon as move action. When you see the description it is tittled "Draw or Sheathe a Weapon". Some may argue that quickdraw modifying the Draw weapon action also modifies the sheathe a weapon action.
Just see if your GM is ok with it. Mine is.
You may use quickdraw to sheathe a weapon as a free action assuming the object is stored in an easy reach container.
The Actions in Combat table specifies draw a weapon as move action. When you see the description it is tittled "Draw or Sheathe a Weapon". Some may argue that quickdraw modifying the Draw weapon action also modifies the sheathe a weapon action.Just see if your GM is ok with it. Mine is.
If you do a search on this, there was a question raised a while back on whether quickdraw will allow you to sheathe a weapon as a free action. The general consensus was 'no'.
If you GM is good with that call, more power to you. However I am looking to play a thrower in Pathfinder Society games which are a stickler for rules as written.
You may use quickdraw to sheathe a weapon as a free action assuming the object is stored in an easy reach container.
The Actions in Combat table specifies draw a weapon as move action. When you see the description it is tittled "Draw or Sheathe a Weapon". Some may argue that quickdraw modifying the Draw weapon action also modifies the sheathe a weapon action.Just see if your GM is ok with it. Mine is.
I like that idea. Weapon throwers are kinda hosed, as it stands. IF someone really wanted to do it a lot, I'd go with it, just because it looks cool.
If you do a search on this, there was a question raised a while back on whether quickdraw will allow you to sheathe a weapon as a free action. The general consensus was 'no'.
If you GM is good with that call, more power to you. However I am looking to play a thrower in Pathfinder Society games which are a stickler for rules as written.
Ok, so we need alternate and imaginative solutions.
If you are going rogue (2 talents), or are multiclassing to an arcane spellcaster you may use the following:Unseen Servant: "Grab my weapons from the floor and give them to me."
Floating Disk: Throw your weapons as a free action in the disk, you can even put your unseen servant in it.
Also:
You may place magnets (APG) in your armor or clothing, they support 3 pounds or less. So you could catch your weapons and just touch the magnet with the weapon. I assume that would be a free action.
This are just quick ideas that may help
Edit: You can move a 5-foot step for the weapons to land on the floating disk automatically
We have always played that a character can throw and catch as many weapons per turn as he/she can make attacks with. This keeps the throwing character on a par with the melee fighter or the bow user. That means multiple free actions per turn to catch and throw the weapon.
I suppose that's a house rule, but it's been a useful one.
We also have modified the "returning" enchantment to be a "following" enchantment, but it's a more costly enchantment. The "following" enchantment will return the weapon to the character and follow him/her for one round before dropping to the ground.
This, again, keeps them on par with melee or bow users.
If anyone thinks these are unbalanced, I'd like to understand why.