I have seen on here a couple of times that this class sucks
Well one of my PCs wants to take Leadership and the party doesnt have a wizzard or a rogue so he figured he could kill two birds with one stone with this PRC
So what do people think is the best way to build one im thinking of using Dervish Dance as a half elf so you dont have to worry about Str at all
I was thinking Conjuration with the teleporting focus free five to 10 foot d door can help alot
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I have seen on here a couple of times that this class sucks
Well one of my PCs wants to take Leadership and the party doesnt have a wizzard or a rogue so he figured he could kill two birds with one stone with this PRC
So what do people think is the best way to build one im thinking of using Dervish Dance as a half elf so you dont have to worry about Str at all
I was thinking Conjuration with the teleporting focus free five to 10 foot d door can help alot
Personally I love Arcane Tricksters, but there are a couple of things you need to be aware of.
1st: Elf is an AMAZING race choice, Halfling if you decide to go Rogue/Sorcerer.
2nd: Remember that Dimension Door takes a standard action to use, so it's not as useful as you might think. Blink can ruin your actions, so steer clear of that as well.
3rd: The main draw of being an Arcane Trickster is the stacking Sneak Attack damage with Touch Spells (specifically Chill Touch or Scorching Ray). If you don't utilize this, the class combo doesn't have much to offer beyond trapfinding and lower spellcasting.
4th: Dervish dance is nice, but those are two feats you may not end up needing UNLESS (big unless) you decide to go Rogue/Magus/Arcane Trickster, and even that's a stretch. Your BAB will be so low that you won't be hitting much with weapons anyways, let alone with sneak attack.
5th: Your cohort will, at least, be two levels lower than you. Now, normally that isn't a big deal, but for a "gish" like Arcane Trickster, that extra low caster level is gonna suck.
Also, remember that Initiative is your friend, so a Rogue/Diviner/Arcane Trickster could be really nifty. The Evoker ability to change spell elements would also really help with Scorching Ray overcoming different energy resistances, as it happens to be crippled by them.
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If you get the Arcane Trickster to the 10th level in the class then you'll be wanting some nice big area effect, hit point damaging, blasting spells to really benefit from the Surprise Spells Class Feature. Of course if it's gonna' be a cohort then I doubt you'll have much chance to get them that high a level...
Elf is kinda out we are running 2nd darkness and we already have two elves who joined the game late who are low level agents and he is a half ork we
He is a Paladin im going to allow the trickster to be LG and sent by his church (Aroden)
I figured he is really their for a little spell casting a little trap finding and a little sneaking around for the party
I have seen on here a couple of times that this class sucks
Well one of my PCs wants to take Leadership and the party doesnt have a wizzard or a rogue so he figured he could kill two birds with one stone with this PRC
Hrm...an AT as a cohort? Given that people already consider the AT to be underpowered, taking one that will be 2 levels below the party (at best) is a case of stacking your liabilities. He'll be a wizard of casting level 5 levels behind (2-3 spell levels) the main casters (PC).
That said, there's literally NOTHING preventing him from making a Wizard with a few rogue skills. Okay, he won't have Trapfinding, but Detect Magic works better in most cases anyways.
I like tricksters, too, but as already mentioned, a cohort will be way behind in spells, but not too much behind a rogue in skills if he has a high int.
DON'T use it for melee. They fight no better and have no more hps than a wizard. Most spell slots should be used to augment rogue skills, or general party buffs, so it's not as awful a class as some people think. They are good scouts and trapfinders, and now and then they can do a sneak-blast, but it wouldn't be that impressive compared to a wizard 3 levels higher.
This class takes a long time to get up to speed, but does have a nice capstone once you get there.
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Maybe just go Rogue 1/Wizard X? It's thematically similar to the Arcane Trickster, and less combatively focused on the whole sneak attack thing. With Int 18 you can still have maxed ranks in several Rogue skills, and will still possess Trapfinding (at only +1, but still enough to find magical traps). Plus only losing 1 Caster Level.
Possibly Bard (Sandman), has some arcane spells a little sneak attack and find traps, few direct offensive spells, but I am guessing you do not need a cohort for that, he might have some back up healing and quite decent support.
I have seen on here a couple of times that this class sucks
The class doesn't "suck." You just have to know it's strengths and weaknesses. It is not a good class if you want to be a flanker/secondary combatant and still cast spells; what it's designed to be is a magical sniper using ranged touch attacks. Also, Ranged Legerdemain is useful for dealing with locks and traps from a distance.
Your best bet for a cohort is rogue (sniper) 3/wizard (admixture) 3/arcane trickster. Deadly Range allows Sneak Attack at 40 ft (useful until sniper's goggles are affordable) and Versatile Evocation allows the caster to switch out the energy type of your Evocation spells when you cast. Fast Stealth and Sniper's Eye rogue talents are probably your best choices, as well as using the Sniping action of Stealth. Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are pretty much must have feats. Another good choice is Additional Traits, so that the NPC can have Magical Knack (Wizard), which allows the CL to be at only character level -1 instead of -3 (pick the other trait to match the concept). Craft Wand (which the character can take at arcane trickster 1, with Magical Knack) is also a good choice, so that the character is never without an acid splash or scorching ray. Arcane Armor Training may be useful to help improve AC above what is possible with mage armor for a lower cost than bracers of armor; a +1 mithral chain shirt gives +5 AC for only 2,100 gp.
I don't know about sniping with the arcane trickster. You have to speak to cast your spells and you can't do that and hide.
Possibly Bard (Sandman), has some arcane spells a little sneak attack and find traps, few direct offensive spells, but I am guessing you do not need a cohort for that, he might have some back up healing and quite decent support.
Well really he is what the Paladin was looking for in a cohort so we will be having a Sandman Follower
Well really he is what the Paladin was looking for in a cohort so we will be having a Sandman FollowerPossibly Bard (Sandman), has some arcane spells a little sneak attack and find traps, few direct offensive spells, but I am guessing you do not need a cohort for that, he might have some back up healing and quite decent support.
The easiest ways for the bard to enter would be Bard(sandman) 7/Master spy 1/arcane trickster x.
I recommend the arcane blast feat for the sandman trickster -- it gives you a regular ranged touch attack to get sneak attack on.
The basic damage of arcane blast isn't impressive, but the sneak attack damage does help.
2nd: Remember that Dimension Door takes a standard action to use, so it's not as useful as you might think. Blink can ruin your actions, so steer clear of that as well.
The conjurer (teleport school from APG) Dimension door ability is a free action.
The conjurer (teleport school from APG) Dimension door ability is a free action.
2nd: Remember that Dimension Door takes a standard action to use, so it's not as useful as you might think. Blink can ruin your actions, so steer clear of that as well.
Just remember that it is still D.Door which means you can't take any actions after you use it.
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The conjurer (teleport school from APG) Dimension door ability is a free action.
2nd: Remember that Dimension Door takes a standard action to use, so it's not as useful as you might think. Blink can ruin your actions, so steer clear of that as well.
Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Like it says above, says "as if using dimension door", which would then use this
The feat's not neccesary. With sneak attack, you can get a good deal of damage from Ray of Frost. Arcane Blast doesn't give you that much more.
The easiest ways for the bard to enter would be Bard(sandman) 7/Master spy 1/arcane trickster x.
I recommend the arcane blast feat for the sandman trickster -- it gives you a regular ranged touch attack to get sneak attack on.
Yeah Ray of Frost would be nice -- except for the fact that the bard doesn't have access to it.
Also as a supernatural ability arcane blast can be used against more opponents (like those with SR, or magic immunity).
Yeah I ment he was not going to build an Arcane trickster he was going to build a sandman its gives what he wants support casting and trap finding
Yeah I ment he was not going to build an Arcane trickster he was going to build a sandman its gives what he wants support casting and trap finding
That sounds better to me. With a decent con score and maybe greater fortitude, he'll be able to survive pretty well.
The easiest ways for the bard to enter would be Bard(sandman) 7/Master spy 1/arcane trickster x.
Actually, the easiest way is bard (sandman) 5/rogue 1/arcane trickster x. 2nd-level spells (bard 4+) and +2d6 Sneak Attack (sandman 5 +1d6, rogue 1 +1d6). The real problem with this character (other than a distinct lack of damaging spells and poor BAB), is that you lose skill ranks by taking arcane trickster (and you're a non-Int-based caster, too).
It is nice to only give up one level of casting progression, though.
The easiest ways for the bard to enter would be Bard(sandman) 7/Master spy 1/arcane trickster x.Actually, the easiest way is bard (sandman) 5/rogue 1/arcane trickster x. 2nd-level spells (bard 4+) and +2d6 Sneak Attack (sandman 5 +1d6, rogue 1 +1d6). The real problem with this character (other than a distinct lack of damaging spells and poor BAB), is that you lose skill ranks by taking arcane trickster (and you're a non-Int-based caster, too).
It is nice to only give up one level of casting progression, though.
You are right, that would work for AT too.
hm... if you really wanted to go nuts you could go bard 5, rogue 1, master spy 1, assassin 1, arcane trickster x...
That would net you 4 sneak attack dice before arcane trickster's 5, ending you with 9d6 sneak attack. Your BAB would be on the rocks though.
Another thought would be:
Bard 5, rogue 1, Arcane trickster 10, arcane archer 4 (or arcane archer 2, eldritch knight 2)
That would have... +3 +5+4 BAB for a total of +12. considering your buffing abilities that wouldn't be so bad... alternatively you could simply take 3 more levels of bard and another level of rogue for evasion to keep the same BAB.
Also the bard does have several spells in the APG that do sonic damage. While these spells normally are not impressive on their damage potential adding in several d6 of sneak attack makes them much nicer.
Also the bard does have several spells in the APG that do sonic damage. While these spells normally are not impressive on their damage potential adding in several d6 of sneak attack makes them much nicer.
Yes, they have access to sonic damage spells. One problem: they're all area effect (no attack rolls), so you can't add Sneak Attack damage to them until arcane trickster 10 with Surprise Spells.
Also the bard does have several spells in the APG that do sonic damage. While these spells normally are not impressive on their damage potential adding in several d6 of sneak attack makes them much nicer.Yes, they have access to sonic damage spells. One problem: they're all area effect (no attack rolls), so you can't add Sneak Attack damage to them until arcane trickster 10 with Surprise Spells.
There is one that is... fifth level I think that's individual attacks -- but I think it's no attack roll too so it's not so useful.
However by the time you are getting into these spells regularly you'll be closing on surprise spell anyways.
I'm fairly confident that a sandman bard with all the buffs available to him still would do fine with AT. A regular bard/rogue/whatever going into AT could probably work fine too in most cases (again partially due to all the buffs he has).
Some feats that might be worth while could include:
Gang up, Lunge, arcane blast, and outflank.
Honestly (speaking of the AT in general) my wife had a really good go with an aberrant sorcerer 4/rogue 1/assassin 1/arcane trickster using lunge in addition to her extended reach as a flanking touch attack sneak attack delivery system. She could hit from 15 feet away behind her allies rather well.
Just remember that it is still D.Door which means you can't take any actions after you use it.The conjurer (teleport school from APG) Dimension door ability is a free action.
2nd: Remember that Dimension Door takes a standard action to use, so it's not as useful as you might think. Blink can ruin your actions, so steer clear of that as well.
Correct, but you can DDoor away after you complete your other actions.
