Are the following two scenarios correct, or am I missing a rule.
Scenario #1:
To make a 2nd level wand of a spell he casts, a sorcerer pays half of 6000. (750gp x 2SL x 4CL = 6000) since he has to be L4 before he can even cast the second level spell. This makes a CL4 wand.
Now if brings in a wizard to cast the same spell when he makes the wand, there should be no 'penalty' and the wand should be half of 750 x 2SL x 3CL = 4500. The wand is CL3 (from the wizard who cast it at CL3)
Scenario #2:
Using the following,
A) Rod of Extend, lesser
B) L2 Spell (invisibility) - cast by a Wizard as CL3
C) Wand made by a L7 sorcerer with craft wand feat.
The wand would be half of the cost of...
750 x 3SL (metamagic boost) x CL3 = 6750
and have a duration twice as long as normal for a CL3 wand.
Scenario #1:
To make a wand of a second level spell at the lowest possible caster level, and by extention price, a sorcerer would craft the wand at a caster level of 4. So the price comes out to 6000 to buy said item or 3000 to craft said item. You're correct up to this point. For the second half of the first scenario though I'd like to quote the PRD.
The creator must have the prepared spell to be stored (or must know the spell in the case of a sorcerer or bard)...The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand's creation. (That is, the spell slot is expended...)
This gives the impression that you cannot have another caster provide the spell for creating a wand. If the wizard had the craft wand feat he could create similar wands to a sorcerer at generally 1 caster level lower if he so desires (i.e. a second level spell at level 3 as opposed to 4), thus making them more efficently (summoners can make the most efficent wands overall as they get some spells at a slightly lower spell level). By the quote above I've never allowed wands to be made with spells from another caster in my games.
Scenario #2:
An extended invisibility uses a third level spell slot despite being only a second level spell, as such it should be considered a third level spell when being used in item creation, even if using a rod to not need to expend a higher level spell slot than its base. The minimum caster level for a caster to cast a third level spell is 5 (for wizards) or 6 for (sorcerers). As such if the wand was crafted as a wizard the equation for determining cost to create should read (750x3SLx5CL)/2. For a sorcerer the cost should be slightly greater; (750x3SLx6CL)/2. While metamagic rods technically don't increase the spell level of a spell to which their effect is being applied the cost should still increase for the preservation of game balance, otherwise every wand should have a metamagic applied at to increase to cost, which is definately not the intent.
- A sorcerer's minium caster level for a spell is always double the level of the spell he is going to cast (with the notable exception of first level spells). A sorcerer who is creating a spell trigger item cannot create aforementioned item at a lower caster level than this minimum.
- Spells for wands cannot be provided by other casters.
Wand of Invisibility
4500GP to purcahse if crafted at caster level 3 (by a wizard, at base level). 6000GP to purchase if crafted at caster level 4 (likely by a sorcerer, at base level). Half of these values is the crafting price for each class, respectively.
Wand of Extended Invisibility
11250GP to purchase if crafted at caster level 5 (by a wizard, at base level). 13500GP to purchase if crafted at caster level 6 (likely by a sorcerer, at base level). Again half of these values is the crafting price for each class, respectively.
I hope that helps.
EDIT-
Expanding upon Scenario #1:
...you cannot create spell-trigger or spell completion items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
All spells must be provided by the creator.
Scenario #1:
To make a wand of a second level spell at the lowest possible caster level, and by extention price, a sorcerer would craft the wand at a caster level of 4. So the price comes out to 6000 to buy said item or 3000 to craft said item. You're correct up to this point. For the second half of the first scenario though I'd like to quote the PRD.
The creator must have the prepared spell to be stored (or must know the spell in the case of a sorcerer or bard)...The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand's creation. (That is, the spell slot is expended...)This gives the impression that you cannot have another caster provide the spell for creating a wand. If the wizard had the craft wand feat he could create similar wands to a sorcerer at generally 1 caster level lower if he so desires (i.e. a second level spell at level 3 as opposed to 4), thus making them more efficently (summoners can make the most efficent wands overall as they get some spells at a slightly lower spell level). By the quote above I've never allowed wands to be made with spells from another caster in my games.
Counter-quote:
Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).
It's unclear whether or not this causes the DC to go up by +5 because the crafter doesn't meet the requirements himself, but it definitely is allowed for someone else to provide the spell.
I know that my sorcerer can have others prepare the spells needed. He's already made cleric wands etc.
I just couldn't find the that he somehow has to always make spells on the Wizard/Sorcer list at CL4 minimum if he can have someone else cast it.
Also, if he has someone else cast it, then he IS meeting the requirements.
Scenario #1:
To make a wand of a second level spell at the lowest possible caster level, and by extention price, a sorcerer would craft the wand at a caster level of 4. So the price comes out to 6000 to buy said item or 3000 to craft said item. You're correct up to this point. For the second half of the first scenario though I'd like to quote the PRD.
The creator must have the prepared spell to be stored (or must know the spell in the case of a sorcerer or bard)...The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand's creation. (That is, the spell slot is expended...)This gives the impression that you cannot have another caster provide the spell for creating a wand. If the wizard had the craft wand feat he could create similar wands to a sorcerer at generally 1 caster level lower if he so desires (i.e. a second level spell at level 3 as opposed to 4), thus making them more efficently (summoners can make the most efficent wands overall as they get some spells at a slightly lower spell level). By the quote above I've never allowed wands to be made with spells from another caster in my games.
Counter-quote:
Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).It's unclear whether or not this causes the DC to go up by +5 because the crafter doesn't meet the requirements himself, but it definitely is allowed for someone else to provide the spell.
I don't feel this is true for spell trigger items and here is why: The full quote of this paragraph-
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met in order for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the item's creator does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger items and spell-completion items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
And-
The creator must have the prepared spell to be stored (or must know the spell in the case of a sorcerer or bard)...The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand's creation. (That is, the spell slot is expended...)
My group has always accepted this as a case of a specific rule trumping a general rule. Under wand crafting it specifically states that the creator must have the spell which is expended. The spell shouldn't be able to be provided by another caster (as in the case of most magic items) as they aren't the creator; they don't have craft wand (or not likely as it would then be simpler for them to just craft it themselves).
I have always taken that section to mean you cannot simply increase the item creation DC to bypass the need for the spell. Just my view for what it is worth.
The creator must have the prepared spell to be stored (or must know the spell in the case of a sorcerer or bard)...The act of working on the wand triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting during each day devoted to the wand's creation. (That is, the spell slot is expended...)
The "or must know" refers to the fact that bards and sorcerers don't PREPARE spells, they only KNOW spells.
This is not a statement of restriction but of 'technicality.' To simply have written "a wizard must know a spell" (instead of using the word 'prepare') it would not make it clear that he would actually have to study and prepare it out of his spellbook. "My wizard knows Unseen Servant, but the only time he's ever memorized or cast it was two years ago."
Therefore the general rule (below) also takes effect:
Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).
So a Bard/Sorcer would have to know the spell (since they can't "prepare" spells) "although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed." Furthermore, as a "general statement" it therefore doesn't have to be repeated in each case below, but covers 'all cases', while the wording in the case of a wand is pointing out a technicality that a Bard/Sorcer (who can't 'prepare' like a wizard) must 'know' the spell, and it has already been established as a general rule that in place of a "known" spell, access through other magic items or spellcasters are allowed.
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It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.
If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator's level must be known.
Yes, you can have a wizard cast the spell for you.
Are the following two scenarios correct, or am I missing a rule.
Scenario #1:
To make a 2nd level wand of a spell he casts, a sorcerer pays half of 6000. (750gp x 2SL x 4CL = 6000) since he has to be L4 before he can even cast the second level spell. This makes a CL4 wand.Now if brings in a wizard to cast the same spell when he makes the wand, there should be no 'penalty' and the wand should be half of 750 x 2SL x 3CL = 4500. The wand is CL3 (from the wizard who cast it at CL3)
Scenario #2:
Using the following,
A) Rod of Extend, lesser
B) L2 Spell (invisibility) - cast by a Wizard as CL3
C) Wand made by a L7 sorcerer with craft wand feat.The wand would be half of the cost of...
750 x 3SL (metamagic boost) x CL3 = 6750
and have a duration twice as long as normal for a CL3 wand.
Scenario #1: You have it exactly right. Please note that the spellcraft DC may go up by 5 with the wizard involved (depending on your group's interpretation of the rules).
Scenario #2: Metamagic wand or not, the CL should be 5, not 3. What's more, you typically need the matamagic feat to create a wand with metamagic. Since you don't "technically" have it (a rod is not the feat), the Spellcraft DC goes up by 5.
My group has always accepted this as a case of a specific rule trumping a general rule. Under wand crafting it specifically states that the creator must have the spell which is expended. The spell shouldn't be able to be provided by another caster (as in the case of most magic items) as they aren't the creator; they don't have craft wand (or not likely as it would then be simpler for them to just craft it themselves).
Doesn't mean anything at all. EVERY magic item says the creator needs the spell.