| Ironicdisaster |
Need some help, my fine people.
I am running a campaign in which the PCs need to find a way of removing parasites from a host's brain, and while I think I have a pretty good idea of how I want to do it (Heal checks, naturally), I have no idea about the DCs! Anyone who has ever seen my threads (like three) knows that I am terrible with DCs, so here is what I do have.
Surgery takes at least an hour and deals one point of damage if the heal check is successful. Failure means that the surgery deals a point of Con damage instead.
Depending on where the surgery takes place, it could also affect Str or Dex, or maybe even Wis, Int, or Cha if it affects the face or brain.
And that's really it. I need DCs and more rules, as I don't feel this set is nearly robust enough to cover what we might encounter.
Thanks in advance!
Thomas LeBlanc
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Why surgery? Just kill the host!
Seriously, I would consider the level the parasites need to be removed at. DC 20 for low levels (1-5), decent chance if PC has high Wis and a few ranks. In my game, for a hard checks, the DC equal to level + 20.
Maybe there is another way to kill the parasites? Ingesting some liquid that gets into bloodstream and poisons the parasites. Like the common remedy of taking sulfur to keep mosquitoes away.
| Karel Gheysens |
doesn't the Xill entry describe exactly what you want.
Fine, it's about eggs and young Xill though it's quite similar.
Dc is set at 20 for cr 6. and does 1d4 damage per attempt
P.S. And the Xill mentions the use of remove disease or similar effect. Might be the easier way out for the players.
| Ironicdisaster |
Easy is what I want to avoid. It's relatively low magic, so finding someone with Remove Disease is difficult.
The premise is that there is an evil gnome that magically created a beetle that burrows into the subject's brainstem and allows for mind control. It has tendrils that dig into the brain, but it's imperfect, and the gnome is testing them on a town, before invariably loosing them on the world, forgetting about them, and creating some different monstrosity. He's been a scientist for quite a while, and has been screwing with genetics his whole life, so anything he creates will be tougher than a third level spell.
| BenignFacist |
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Personally, any at attempt at 'ye olde brain surgery', to my mind, will not end well!
Gaining access to the brain alone is going to be interesting for all parties involved!
I'd introduce a non-surgical treatment that allows the subject to save versus X, with a success driving the beetle out of the host and a failure harming the host - possibly making future saves harder as the beetle tightens it's grip/burrows deeper.
For example, have them discover that ingesting a certain combination of compounds - say lots of vinegar and ginger - creates a metabolic shift within the host, altering their brain chemistry in a manner that causes the beetle to attempt to flee from the victim's brain, a process which could inflict some temporary Int/Wis damage as a result.
Then you throw in some brutal brain-surgery rules as a 'last resort' - the end results could involve Int/Wis damage and lots of saves versus disease (infection) which if failed could lead to all kinds of nasty, potentially terminal conditions.
::
The trick is - if you only introduce one choice, then that's all they have to play with. You have to decide how lethal these beetles are -- which is going to depend on what is needed to cure an infected host.
By giving the players two choices you can choose to reward other aspects of play - researching the beetles, discovering notes left/lost by the gnome, observation of a seemingly-self-cured ex-host - and, if they fluff things up they can always fall back on the (desperate) brain surgery 'cure'.
..which in turn they might choose to investigate/research - tho such a process would seemingly involve much trial and error.. so, really, how bloody do you want things to get? :)
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''Ok, we've lost another - bring me the next vict... patient!''
''Sir, we're running out of villagers!''
''Damn it man, I'm trying to save lives here!''
''Sir, with respect, at this rate there will be no one left to save..''
''Come on man, this is for their own good!''
''...*sigh*. as you wish Sir, I shall send in the next.. patient.''
''Excellent! ..oh and Jenkins..''
''Yes Sir?''
''Send for another mop and bucket, my boots are getting wet.''
*shakes fist*
| Goth Guru |
Surgery, as I created it, is a feat that allows the surgeon to perform a heal check using dexterity. You might go with Trepanation which puts a hole in the head, then using magic missile or scorching ray on the beetle. You must use an attack that effects only one target. I advise inventing rubbing alcohol to prevent infection.
Patient unconsciousness should add +5 to the surgery attempt, so a pixie anesthesiologist is recommended.
Another option is the far realm slime.
6: Slime Pit: The blackish green slime on the top of the water, if put on the skin, will make a person sickened for an hour, but all diseases and parasites in the body will die. (With Mummy Rot, the curse will persist. Till the curse is removed, no magical healing will work.) The 3 feet of water is leaking in from The Far Realm.
| Ironicdisaster |
Well, the beetles spawn inside the blood stream, and it takes five days to kill a host. The beetles are adverse to alcohol, and it will cause them all to die off if enough is administered. "Enough", however, is often a lethal amount for the host, as well. The person doing the surgery will be an NPC, but I don't want it to be autopilot for win. I just need a way for calculating the DC for the surgery into something consistent.
| BenignFacist |
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I just need a way for calculating the DC for the surgery into something consistent.
Hmm.
It depends on what you want the %chance of success to be.
This will be based on the NPC's Heal skill check modifier vs the DC of the operation. Assuming they're the only source of the procedure - you could say it requires Knowledge: Strange Surgery if you want to make things tougher for anyone else (PCs) with the Heal skill.
So, if NPC has +10 to the check and you set the DC at 20 then we're looking at a roughly 50% chance of success.
Increase/decrease NPC's Heal check/the DC of save as required.
You can also discourage the procedure by making it cause ability damage on success and/or failure (say, 1d4 Int and Wis Success, 2D4 Int and Wis on a Failure).
..and even through in some damage for kicks.
Note: My maths is teh bad.
*shakes fist*
the David
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I'd suggest either using remove disease, or some kind of poison.
Remove disease can cure all diseases from which the subject is suffering. You must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each disease affecting the target. Success means that the disease is cured. The spell also kills some hazards and parasites, including green slime and others.
As for the poison, you mentioned that the beetles spawn in the bloodstream. Now this would mean that they are very vulnerable. (Think of a fetus) It should be easy to poison them without doing much harm to the host. The trick? Finding a poison that doesn't do much harm to the host, but that will kill the parasites.
In 5 days the parasites will grow tougher gaining more resistance (Higher Fortitude) against poisons.
| Ironicdisaster |
The PCs can still Aid Another, provide masterworks tools, or even try the surgery themselves. The surgery is an option to take the responsibility off of the characters, mosgly. If they can't find a way to combat the bugs another way, they still have an option. Strong liquor is the easiest way, but it involves convincing the villager in question to drink a lot, and make sure all the alcohol stays down.
Remove Disease is autopilot for win, and as I have stated before, the person who engineered the bugs took precautions against magical healing. Remove Disease will NOT work.
The surgery is suposed to be a last resort to scare the party into action, but I fully expect the PCs to take that option.
@Benign_racist, thanks for the help. I had planned on ability damage for the operation, and again for each failed roll, combined with the one point of damage the action all ready deals. The villagers will have to make will/fortitude saves to avoid having the initial damage be permanent, but the damage from failed rolls will be permanent.
| Gilfalas |
The person doing the surgery will be an NPC, but I don't want it to be autopilot for win. I just need a way for calculating the DC for the surgery into something consistent.
If this is the case, and your not going to let players eventually learn this brain surgery then all you REALLY need to do is decide the % chance you want the surgery to succeed or fail and roll some percentile dice.
After all as an NPC, he is basically a plot device and as such, make your life simple and just decide how effective you want the surgery to be and have THAT happen.
If, on the other hand, you are going to let the players eventually learn this new fangled medical approach of cutting people open to safe them, then yes your going to want to have codified DC's.
But if your going to invent moderm medicine for you game then maybe check the D20 Modern rules to see how they handle surgery in various tech levels?
| Viktyr Korimir |
The Romans had brain surgery. It's not unreasonable to assume that it would be available to trained characters in your setting.
You don't need set DCs. Figure out how often you want the doctor to succeed, and base the DC on that. I would seriously suggest that you not tie PC survival to an NPC's skill checks, however.
| Ironicdisaster |
It isn't solely on the NPC skill checks. There is another way (alcohol poisoning) that relies on forcing an npc to drink more alcohol than they can on their own, which means keeping them awake, CMB checks to keep them pinned down, to force them to drink booze while freaking out, and they can still aid another, provide tools, and a whole bunch of other things. I want the chances to be slim (20% ish) if they don't help out, but if done right, they could make it almost 100%.
| DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
Going the surgery route, I advise looking at d20 Modern's rules for surgery and go from there:
Surgery (DC 20): With a surgery kit, a character can conduct field surgery. This application of the Treat Injury skill carries a –4 penalty, which can be negated with the Surgery feat. Surgery requires 1d4 hours; if the patient is at negative hit points, add an additional hour for every point below 0 the patient has fallen.
Surgery restores 1d6 hit points for every character level of the patient (up to the patient’s full normal total of hit points) with a successful skill check. Surgery can only be used successfully on a character once in a 24-hour period.
A character who undergoes surgery is fatigued for 24 hours, minus 2 hours for every point above the DC the surgeon achieves. The period of fatigue can never be reduced below 6 hours in this fashion.
Because there is no "surgery feat" in PF, I would simply say that the Heal DC is 24. A "surgery kit" is simply the appropriate tools for surgery, which I would say can be a healer's kit, plus oil of taggit to render the subject unconscious while you work.
Since you are essentially treating a disease (a parasitic infestation), I would ignore the HP healed and instead basically allow the PC a new saving throw versus the disease with a substantial bonus if you are successful (maybe a bonus equal to the amount by which the surgeon exceeded the surgery DC). If you fail but not considerably, the character remains diseased. If you fail by say, more than 5 less than the DC, then the character takes Int, Wis, or Cha damage (your choice or choose randomly).
I also do like the other posters' suggestions of essentially medicating the parasites away. Either use a poison that deals con or strength damage (but not drain), or perhaps have someone use Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Herbalist) to make something akin to antitoxin, with a higher DC. Either when the character takes at least 3 ability damage, or after the character takes 5 days (arbitrarily chosen number, as the last medicine I took was a z-pack) with complete rest, the medicine/poison/whatever has killed the parasite and the person is cured. If you go the ability damage route, he must heal the ability damage normally (with rest or a restorative spell).