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Hey all, making new a fighter with the two-handed archetype from the APG.
I've read in other threads that power attack and overhand chop can stack for some nice damage.
What I'm trying to figure out is whether vital strike can be used with overhand chop, and maybe even all three together?
I guess that also means I'm asking if PA and VS can go together.
I appreciate any responses thank you!
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...when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge)
If you can use it on a charge, then you can use it with vital strike, in my mind. Power attack is definitely allowed. You can use it with any type of qualifying melee attack, even attacks of opportunity, so long as you declared its use on your turn.
this is something i was wondering too, i have a fighter that is 4th level and i plan on picking up vital strike at 6th level.
You can use Vital Strike and Overhand Chop. Both are used with the Standard Attack Action (i.e. The normal standard action used to make a single attack). Power Attack modifies ANY attack. So all three is all good,
You can also use Overhand Chop on a charge, but you can't Vital Strike on a charge.
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Ok, so let me check my math here.
Fighter level 6. Two-handed archetype from APG.
STR = 20, mod = +5 (has belt of str +2, regular stat is 18)
+1 Greatsword
WT Heavy Blades = +1 to dmg
Basic single attack would equal 2d6 + 9.
First, using vital strike, damage would be 4d6+9. (Seems a lot? Maybe it's just 3d6 for a 2d6 weapon when doubling dice? Can someone check me on this?)
Then Overhand chop replaces the +7 from str to +10 to make damage equal 4d6+14.
Finally at this level power attack adds 4 to the damage, we we end up with a final 4d6+18 per round using only single attacks. Or 3d6+18 if my VS math is wrong.
Everything lining up right?
Greatsword:
+9 (bab) +5(str) +1(magic)+1(weapon training) +2(greater weapon focus) - 3(power attack) = +15
Damage: 2d6 + 2d6(vital strike) + 9(power attack) +1(magic)+2(weapon specialization)+1(weapon training) +5(strength) +5(overhand chop) = 4d6+23
So it would be:
Overhand Vital Strike Chop: +15 (4d6+23 19~20/x2) and on a critical the additional damage would be (2d6+23)
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Greatsword:
+9 (bab) +5(str) +1(magic)+1(weapon training) +2(greater weapon focus) - 3(power attack) = +15
Damage: 2d6 + 2d6(vital strike) + 9(power attack) +1(magic)+2(weapon specialization)+1(weapon training) +5(strength) +5(overhand chop) = 4d6+23So it would be:
Overhand Vital Strike Chop: +15 (4d6+23 19~20/x2) and on a critical the additional damage would be (2d6+23)
Well, for my character right now, he does not have weapon specialization yet.
But for the +5 for strength, shouldn't it be different for individual strength bonus due to two-handed weapon? 1.5x str modifier? But overhand chop makes it just twice my str modify (thus making it 10 instead of the 7) and the damage from PA is +4 (instead of 9) at BAB +6?
Um... for some reason I was thinking fighter level 9 -- my bad:
Power attack would be +6 damage as two handed weapons get extra damage from power attack that one handed weapons do not get.
Basically it's:
(Penalty+1)*2 = bonus damage -- if using an one handed weapon
(Penalty+1)*3 = bonus damage -- if using a two handed weapon
(Penalty+1)*1 = bonus damage -- if using an off handed weapon
A quick list to make it easier:
BAB -- Pen - 1H --- 2H --- OH
+1 --- -1 -- +2 --- +3 --- +1
+4 --- -2 -- +4 --- +6 --- +2
+8 --- -3 -- +6 --- +9 --- +3
+12 -- -4 -- +8 --- +12 -- +4
+16 -- -5 -- +10 -- +15 -- +5
+20 -- -6 -- +12 -- +18 -- +6
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Um... for some reason I was thinking fighter level 9 -- my bad:
Power attack would be +6 damage as two handed weapons get extra damage from power attack that one handed weapons do not get.
Basically it's:
(Penalty+1)*2 = bonus damage -- if using an one handed weapon
(Penalty+1)*3 = bonus damage -- if using a two handed weapon
(Penalty+1)*1 = bonus damage -- if using an off handed weaponA quick list to make it easier:
BAB -- Pen - 1H --- 2H --- OH
+1 --- -1 -- +2 --- +3 --- +1
+4 --- -2 -- +4 --- +6 --- +2
+8 --- -3 -- +6 --- +9 --- +3
+12 -- -4 -- +8 --- +12 -- +4
+16 -- -5 -- +10 -- +15 -- +5
+20 -- -6 -- +12 -- +18 -- +6
Ok, so by my count that means the Power Overhand Vital Strike Chop Attack (lol) would be 4d6+20 standard damage. Crit would be an additional 2d6+20?
The only thing that doesn't make sense to me yet is how overhand chop effects the str bonuses already applied. Does it replace the +7 to make is +10 (twice my str bonus)? Or does at add an addition +5 to the +7, effectively making str bonuses a net +12?
It replaces the standard modifier to strength for damage.
So when taking a single attack with a two handed weapon you gain str_mod * 2 damage instead of str_mod * 1.5 damage.
So in your case damage would be:
4d6 (vital strike)
+10 (str_mod *2)
+1 (magic)
+1 (weapon training)
+6 (power attack)
for a total of 4d6+18 with an additional 2d6+18 on a critical hit.
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The only thing that doesn't make sense to me yet is how overhand chop effects the str bonuses already applied. Does it replace the +7 to make is +10 (twice my str bonus)? Or does at add an addition +5 to the +7, effectively making str bonuses a net +12?
Understandable confusion. It changes the 1.5xstr mod to 2xstr mod. 5+2 for +7 is replaced with 5+5 for +10
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It replaces the standard modifier to strength for damage.
So when taking a single attack with a two handed weapon you gain str_mod * 2 damage instead of str_mod * 1.5 damage.
So in your case damage would be:
4d6 (vital strike)
+10 (str_mod *2)
+1 (magic)
+1 (weapon training)
+6 (power attack)for a total of 4d6+18 with an additional 2d6+18 on a critical hit.
Yeah after reviewing the numbers I got that as well. Awesome stuff.
Thank you everyone for your help and input!
For a little extra, you might want to get a friendly ranger to cast lead blades on you to raise the damage to 6d6.
You might even want to get a scabbard that are able to do just that a la scabbard of keen edges.