I am writing up my introduction to my campaign set in 17th Century Europe, and it occurs to me: they killed witches in 17th Century Europe.
and not just members of the Witch class. anybody who was suspected of casting spells was liable to be burned as a Witch. Granted, at the time there was a movement of skepticism which made it harder to gain convictions for witchcraft, but if somebody blatantly casts Fireballs in downtown Stockholm, he might very well find himself an outlaw by the next game session.
Thinks makes life difficult for spellcasters, I think.
As long as spellcasters avoid flashy spellcasting in public places they should be ok. Still Spell and Silent Spell might be good feats to invest in.
I am writing up my introduction to my campaign set in 17th Century Europe, and it occurs to me: they killed witches in 17th Century Europe.
and not just members of the Witch class. anybody who was suspected of casting spells was liable to be burned as a Witch. Granted, at the time there was a movement of skepticism which made it harder to gain convictions for witchcraft, but if somebody blatantly casts Fireballs in downtown Stockholm, he might very well find himself an outlaw by the next game session.
Thinks makes life difficult for spellcasters, I think.
It would be like playing a male channeler in wheel of time. Could be fun. The question is, is this meant to be just like 17th century Europe, or will magic be common place enough to be allowed?
Do be careful. There needs to be something in place that stops the higher level spellcasters from overthrowing the entire system.
Do be careful. There needs to be something in place that stops the higher level spellcasters from overthrowing the entire system.
Thats easy,
Nothing like an organized theocracy, wielding tangible divine power actively hunting heretics to keep mages on their toes.
Humbly,
Yawar
Do be careful. There needs to be something in place that stops the higher level spellcasters from overthrowing the entire system.Thats easy,
** spoiler omitted **
Nothing like an organized theocracy, wielding tangible divine power actively hunting heretics to keep mages on their toes.
Humbly,
Yawar
I am writing up my introduction to my campaign set in 17th Century Europe, and it occurs to me: they killed witches in 17th Century Europe.
and not just members of the Witch class. anybody who was suspected of casting spells was liable to be burned as a Witch. Granted, at the time there was a movement of skepticism which made it harder to gain convictions for witchcraft, but if somebody blatantly casts Fireballs in downtown Stockholm, he might very well find himself an outlaw by the next game session.
Thinks makes life difficult for spellcasters, I think.
That is because spellcasters were not common in our world and people fear what they do not know. If magic is a new thing then I can understand the fear, much like how mutants in X-Men don't get treated so well, but if magic has been there from the beginning then I don't see the witch hunt's taking place. I think a history of how and why magic came to be would be necessary to determine people's attitudes towards it. Magic and technology are not that much different. This might also mean no(very little) magic items since there were no casters to create them, or casters dumb enough to admit they had the power to do so. This hurts the noncasting classes more since it is harder to stop them.
You would also have to explain how certain monsters are being held at bay without magic, especially incorporeal creatures. I am sure there are other issues that would arrive if you use our world with a magic user suddenly thrown into it, along with Pathfinder monsters.I think that Iron Heroes is a better fit for your campaign. It is D20, and there is only one spell casting class.
I'm going on the theory that magic is very rare. It's probably even rarer after hundreds of years of witch hunting. So I am thinking that even a Paladin could spook the masses with her magic, if she is not careful.
As for the monsters, they are also rare and unknown and out of the way, mostly. Most opponents will be human. I suppose every once in a while a monster will be encountered, especially in uncivilized areas, but it's most NPCs have never seen one.
Wraithstrike's post makes me think that if the PCs do blatantly use magic, that would make the witch hunts more intensive.
On the other hand, I did decide to make an organization called the White Witches, who want think that magic can be used for good ends and want to legalize magic, although even membership in the White Witches is enough to bring on the inquisition. Still, they can provide help and support to PC spellcasters, and they might even have some friends in high places.
Why would a spellcaster even risk their life by exposing their powers to the party members, and where are they getting the components from for spells? Where are they getting the training from?
I know I am not in your campaign, but if I was a player these are the types of things I would be asking.
Why would a spellcaster even risk their life by exposing their powers to the party members, and where are they getting the components from for spells? Where are they getting the training from?
I know I am not in your campaign, but if I was a player these are the types of things I would be asking.
Those are good questions, and I'm working on the answers.
Presumably, the PCs trust each other. The White Witches could also help out, providing training and components, and introducing people to other people who can be trusted. I figure that most of the White Witches are actually Bards, with all the other spellcasting classes represented.
Divine casters may not need training or an organization though, being able to cast spells through their divine inspiration.
It's also possible that non-Europeans might cast spells based on their own traditions. For example, an African Witchdoctor could make her way to Europe somehow (that story would certainly have to be told), although a female witchdoctor is likely to have a much harder time than a male witchdoctor.
A PC could also be a Siberian shaman or an American shaman. However, foreigners would have to watch their step carefully to avoid angry mobs.
My thought is that most PCs will probably be non-spellcasters, making this sort of like a 17th Century X-Files.
Japanese priests, french sorcerers, Chinese wizards (called something else), Norwegian warlocks(witches or sorcerers), Chinese Alchemists, etc.
What would be your stance on alchemy, anyways?
I haven't really read the Alchemist rules in the Advanced Players Guide, but it seems like they'd fit in very well as 17th Century scientists. They don't understand the Periodic Table or necessarily why things happen the way they happen, but what they have found is that by freeing themselves of Aristotlian dogma, they can make things happen.
So the Alchemists would be a relatively new class (at least in Europe -- the Chinese have had them around for centuries), but most people respect them as scientists and not as magic users.
There would also be the old European style alchemists, but they don't accomplish much, and most don't have levels in the Alchemist class. In fact, very few NPCs would have levels in the Alchemist class. It is really a hit-or-miss situation.
Most non Europeans in the 17th century would only be in Europe as slaves..also are you talking early or late 17th century?
If it's later..ie post 1660 then rational science is fast overtaking superstition..at least in the major cities..so a caster could be,for instance, a member of the Royal Society and under the protection of the English Crown
Have you read the Cardinal's Blades..if not I would recommend it as a great tie in to what you are trying to do.
Why would a spellcaster even risk their life by exposing their powers to the party members, and where are they getting the components from for spells? Where are they getting the training from?
I know I am not in your campaign, but if I was a player these are the types of things I would be asking.Those are good questions, and I'm working on the answers.
Presumably, the PCs trust each other. The White Witches could also help out, providing training and components, and introducing people to other people who can be trusted. I figure that most of the White Witches are actually Bards, with all the other spellcasting classes represented.
Divine casters may not need training or an organization though, being able to cast spells through their divine inspiration.
It's also possible that non-Europeans might cast spells based on their own traditions. For example, an African Witchdoctor could make her way to Europe somehow (that story would certainly have to be told), although a female witchdoctor is likely to have a much harder time than a male witchdoctor.
A PC could also be a Siberian shaman or an American shaman. However, foreigners would have to watch their step carefully to avoid angry mobs.
My thought is that most PCs will probably be non-spellcasters, making this sort of like a 17th Century X-Files.
How are the PC's going to get scrolls and other magic items?
How are outsiders such as demons and devil be explained? Will there be more than one deity in your world.It might be better to write up most of the campaign world if you have not done so, than to have a player catch you off guard in the middle of a session.
Also, what about clerics and gods? Christianity is going to be a big can of worms...
Sanctioned spellcasters acting under the authority of the Inquisition might also be a possibility
Sanctioned spellcasters acting under the authority of the Inquisition might also be a possibility
I was about to say the exact same thing. It's not like it's totally unheard-of in the history of the Church to find out they were using some of the same resources for their own means that they were otherwise publicly frowning upon, or banning.
I did up a short thing a few years back set in a sort of blended 13th - 16th century Eastern Europe to celebrate my own Slavic-ness. We mainly kept to small villages, where the locals lived in fear of the spellcasters but couldn't do much about it. Otherwise (and I know it sounds cliche), the Gypsies felt a kinship and helped to hide them.
If any of that helps at all.
Japanese priests, french sorcerers, Chinese wizards (called something else), Norwegian warlocks(witches or sorcerers), Chinese Alchemists, etc.
What would be your stance on alchemy, anyways?
Which brings up the point of how the Western world would survive under those circumstances.
If an Inquisition had killed off, or even greatly reduced the number of western mages then what would have happened to the Spanish going against Aztec blood priests, or Incan wizards? Would India or China have fallen so easily to western conqourers?
And what about Islam? Would the viriulently anti-magic Jihad have gotten even half as far as it did if it had faced actual magic opposition?
Japanese priests, french sorcerers, Chinese wizards (called something else), Norwegian warlocks(witches or sorcerers), Chinese Alchemists, etc.
What would be your stance on alchemy, anyways?Which brings up the point of how the Western world would survive under those circumstances.
If an Inquisition had killed off, or even greatly reduced the number of western mages then what would have happened to the Spanish going against Aztec blood priests, or Incan wizards? Would India or China have fallen so easily to western conqourers?
And what about Islam? Would the viriulently anti-magic Jihad have gotten even half as far as it did if it had faced actual magic opposition?
Which is exactly why the Church would have sanctioned spellcasters..
As to Islam that's an area I cannot comment on..I really must read more about the period in question.
A friend ran a Three Musketeers game an eon back, with casters being 'sanctioned' by the crown or the major powers in the land. That would now translate into Wizards, with Sorcerers being 'unsanctioned'. Magic was a lot less capable, but non-casters had no clue what was going on. Except the Magisters' Guard (think the Cardinal's guard from the story), who were trained in the magical ways of their order.
I've been thinking about the alchemists, and skimming over the story of Joan of Arc. I think there might be some loopholes to allow for use of magic in limited circumstances.
In the case of the alchemists, I think I'll have a few of the traditional alchemists actually being Wizards, (especially Transmuters), who prepare their spells by making alchemical preparations. This would be kosher in the eyes of the authorities.
In the case of Joan of Arc, perhaps it is possible that if somebody has "friends in high places", and demonstrates a commitment to nationalistic ends, her supernatural abilities can be seen as the grace of God rather than the work of the Devil. But if politics should swing, so might you.
As for other cultures, perhaps they have their problems. I am considering that magic is very rare, and high level casters even more so. There aren't enough true Wizards or Clerics or even Bards to prevent the eventual colonization of the other continents.
As for buying magic, well that may be difficult. There are some secret orders. Instead of a scroll, you might be able to get an alchemical concoction that does the job. Or the White Witches might be able to get you a potion. But in general, magic items will be difficult to come by, unless you have the crafting feats.
Read the background of Mage the Ascension, part of the White Wolf storyline for a good explanation of such a scenario regarding the transition from Magick to Technocracy.
This for sure plus Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrel for ideas on a "rediscovered" magical paradigm. Yes its set in the 19th century but the conceptuals can be utilized here as well.
The idea only makes things difficult for SOME spellcasters.
An evoker is in trouble, as you pointed out.
A diviner, on the other hand, is probably filthy rich, with no one the wiser.
A transmuter or a druid with wild shape is also probably in good shape, as long as no one sees them change.
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My guess is that you'll have different kinds of spellcasters. For example, I could easily get away with mage armor and true strike as a sorceror most of the time, even if burning hands is out.
This for sure plus Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrel for ideas on a "rediscovered" magical paradigm. Yes its set in the 19th century but the conceptuals can be utilized here as well.
Read the background of Mage the Ascension, part of the White Wolf storyline for a good explanation of such a scenario regarding the transition from Magick to Technocracy.
I am getting a lot of ideas from Mage: the Ascension. The idea of the Celestial Chorus trying to block the Witches appeals to me. In history, it is recorded that ever since the 8th Century Christian leaders have been telling people not to believe in witchcraft, even going so far at certain times as saying that people who accuse others of being a witch should themselves confess for believing in witchcraft.
But there seems to be a period from about the 15-18th Centuries when people not only believed in witches but also believed that they were dangerous and had to be destroyed. And then a more rationalistic paradigm took hold.
i use one campaign where magic was forbidden, but in the 13th century...
yes, world of darkness has a bunch of rules for that kind of situations, and ravenloft phb 3.5
the layers were exciliated from the group, some was killed for the players cause the magic was heretic.
so, the same rule run for divine casters, but theyre has a excuse: god make his will uppon mines, and so, arcane spell casters gonna take a big quest. maybe theyre picking an evil aligment, thats the reason why theyre choose to use an arcane magic...
other thing that happen to me, one spelcaster start to present himself as a messias, and bluff and dipplomacy was his a highleveled skills, skill focus, then a gang of religious want him dead, but no one dare to do that, cause, if he really are a mesias?
was a good game, i must have the rules that i make for that campaign, but in other hd, if u want i can gave it to you, the thing is, im write in spanish cause im mexican, but u can try to read?
i use one campaign where magic was forbidden, but in the 13th century...
yes, world of darkness has a bunch of rules for that kind of situations, and ravenloft phb 3.5the layers were exciliated from the group, some was killed for the players cause the magic was heretic.
so, the same rule run for divine casters, but theyre has a excuse: god make his will uppon mines, and so, arcane spell casters gonna take a big quest. maybe theyre picking an evil aligment, thats the reason why theyre choose to use an arcane magic...
other thing that happen to me, one spelcaster start to present himself as a messias, and bluff and dipplomacy was his a highleveled skills, skill focus, then a gang of religious want him dead, but no one dare to do that, cause, if he really are a mesias?
was a good game, i must have the rules that i make for that campaign, but in other hd, if u want i can gave it to you, the thing is, im write in spanish cause im mexican, but u can try to read?
Spanish is one of the languages I've been studying. Puedo leer un poco espanole or something like that.
If you want to email what you have to utgardloki@yahoo.com, I can try to read it. If nothing else, there is Google Translate.
perfect, mine is donovan_strad_cain@hotmail.com
if u has msn give me add