Summoner's Eidolon armor question


Rules Questions


Some people here at paizo have earlier said that an eidolon cant where armor or shield... but i cant seem to find it in any rule.. i know it will without the feats give some penalty but is it forbidden and if so where is it written?

Shadow Lodge

Quote:
Armor Bonus: The number noted here is the eidolon's base total armor bonus. This bonus may be split between an armor bonus and a natural armor bonus, as decided by the summoner. This number is modified by the eidolon's base form and some options available through its evolution pool. An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the summoner's connection to the eidolon.

Some stuff is buried deep.


Quote:
An eidolon cannot armor of any kind, as the armor interferes with the summoner's connection with the eidolon.

APG, page 58, under Armor Bonus.


thx guys :D i seen it.... i wonder if shields is included ?


Thematically, I dont' think so. but eidolons aren't summoned with any equipment, so you'd have to lug it around yourself when the eidolong isn't around. Plus, you'd have to buy shield proficiency with feats, which might not pay off all that well.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

An eidolon cannot "wear" armor, per RAW.

However, there is the Improved Natural Armor 1-point evolution (+2 to natural armor), which can be selected "once for every five levels the summoner possesses." You can make the "rigid scales, or bony plates" resemble armor (i.e., like an insect or arthropod). In addition, mage armor (+4 armor bonus) is on the summoner's spell list.


If your Eidolon has a natural armor bonus, too, you could always pick up Improved Natural Armor as a feat a couple times, if you really want AC.


Bue wrote:
thx guys :D i seen it.... i wonder if shields is included ?

Seeing as the 'rule' is simply for balance reasons it's hard to divine intentions here as you would other places.

The term 'armor' in D&D is used in many places. It can refer to 'worn armor' or the class 'armor' the former does not include shields while the later includes both shields and the former.

To whit: shields are in the class of armor (they have armor check penalties, arcane spell failure, etc) but are not included in light, medium or heavy armor nor do they provide an armor bonus.

The restriction against eidolons wearing armor is spurious at best, and imho you're better off putting a lot of house rules on the summoner class to make it less complicated and exception based. Rather than disallow armor I'd simply lower the natural armor progression of the critter.

-James


Tim Malmstrom wrote:
Thematically, I dont' think so. but eidolons aren't summoned with any equipment, so you'd have to lug it around yourself when the eidolong isn't around. Plus, you'd have to buy shield proficiency with feats, which might not pay off all that well.

Mithril Shield = No Check Penalty = No Penalty for Non-Proficiency.

Shiva-build could use one shield and five dancing/fleshgrinding magic swords...


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I'm about to start a new campaign as a synthesist (gnome, lvl2, bipedal base form) and have just read about 4 separate posts explaining the different interpretations of the rules and most end up advising house rules until the errata comes out. Usually the messageboards have all the answers needed, but this time I really need clarity on the armored synthesist problem, and didn't want to start a separate thread about the same topic.

As far as I can see, the description in UM is vague at best, as the summoner "gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses". Usually if you gain two bonuses of the same type, only the larger one applies (chain shirt and bracers of armor+2 only give +4 armor - from the chain shirt), so if you 'gain' the eidolon's bonuses as stated, then you could have [+4 armor, +0 natural armor (synthesist)] and [+0 armor, +6 natural armor (eidolon)] for a total of +10 (4 armor, 6 natural) taking the better of the two each time.

While this seems to be allowed by my reading of the rules, I feel that there must be some mistake as, while the summoner appears "inside a translucent image of his eidolon", that image would surely cover the entire summoner and any gear he's wearing, rendering the armor bonus from the summoner's chain shirt useless in terms of protection (at least according to the description, if not the rules wording). As they are counted as one creature, perhaps replacing the summoner's natural armor and armor bonuses with the eidolon's would be a better rule.

My real question, however, has to do with the fused synthesist/eidolon wearing armor specifically designed to fit the eidolon's form (as I'd use mage armor anyway, all this does is save an action at the beginning of each combat, because the max dex bonus would only begin to limit me at later levels). This armor would be the equivalent of crafting armor for an unusually shaped creature (I havn't the foggiest idea about the exact rules), and would never be found during the adventure, as it is abnormally shaped, and also would have to be donned by the synthesist after each time the eidolon is summoned. He would also have to lug it around when the eidolon is unsummoned and this raises some potentially hilarious situations should he fail the will save for a dismissal/banishment, especially at later levels (huge eidolon is dismissed and the small gnome has to spend two consecutive full-round actions trying to get out from underneath the massive chain shirt).

I raise this because of the wording in the original description of eidolons and armor: "An eidolon cannot wear armor of any kind, as the armor
interferes with the summoner’s connection to the eidolon." While I can understand that game balance may be an issue, the armor is now around both the eidolon and the summoner, so it couldn't interfere with the connection between them any more than both of them stepping into a metal-lined chamber would. Sure, a barrier can affect the link between them, but now that the armor is around both of them, the wording of the old reason no longer applies.

I can't think of any potential reason why the fused eidolon can't wear armor, other than (maybe) game balance.


Trismegistus wrote:

I'm about to start a new campaign as a synthesist (gnome, lvl2, bipedal base form) and have just read about 4 separate posts explaining the different interpretations of the rules and most end up advising house rules until the errata comes out. Usually the messageboards have all the answers needed, but this time I really need clarity on the armored synthesist problem, and didn't want to start a separate thread about the same topic.

As far as I can see, the description in UM is vague at best, as the summoner "gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses". Usually if you gain two bonuses of the same type, only the larger one applies (chain shirt and bracers of armor+2 only give +4 armor - from the chain shirt), so if you 'gain' the eidolon's bonuses as stated, then you could have [+4 armor, +0 natural armor (synthesist)] and [+0 armor, +6 natural armor (eidolon)] for a total of +10 (4 armor, 6 natural) taking the better of the two each time.

While this seems to be allowed by my reading of the rules, I feel that there must be some mistake as, while the summoner appears "inside a translucent image of his eidolon", that image would surely cover the entire summoner and any gear he's wearing, rendering the armor bonus from the summoner's chain shirt useless in terms of protection (at least according to the description, if not the rules wording). As they are counted as one creature, perhaps replacing the summoner's natural armor and armor bonuses with the eidolon's would be a better rule.

My real question, however, has to do with the fused synthesist/eidolon wearing armor specifically designed to fit the eidolon's form (as I'd use mage armor anyway, all this does is save an action at the beginning of each combat, because the max dex bonus would only begin to limit me at later levels). This armor would be the equivalent of crafting armor for an unusually shaped creature (I havn't the foggiest idea about the exact rules), and would never be found during the adventure, as it is abnormally shaped, and also...

Use bracers of armor and your problem is solved, magical items that will work when not fused (bonus) and will contribute to the fused state (what you wanted) without causing an issue with RAW and side step the syth issues. You are not wearing armor, but still getting an armor bonus. Just because you choose the synth archtype doesn't mean the line in question doesn't apply. You fuse, you spent your actions suiting up with said custom armor, you are now breaking the game rule saying eidolons cannot wear armor so eidolon goes *poof* and you are surrounded by the wrong sized/shaped armor. The clause didn't go away because of the archtype. And just because you are "in" the eidolon doesn't make a difference, the clause must still be enforced as the archtype doesn't say you get to ignore it. The archtype even goes as far as giving a shield bonus so you don't suffer from having no access to "armor" ( as mentioned shield are a subset of armor) at all.

Back on topic:

Obviously the same thing would work for a normal summoned eidolon assuming the form they have allows for the bracers slot (aka needs arms evolution, though I guess legs could work too by RAW) and the summoner wasn't wearing bracers. This would allow you to stack nat armor via eidolon AC bonus and buff up overall AC by armor bonus without wearing the prohibited armor.

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