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How do I convert the Gray Elf subrace to Pathfinder?
Elves in pathfinder get a +2 INT conversion.
Gray Elf template in 3.5 adds (-2 STR +2 INT) to the normal elf race for (-2 STR +2 DEX -2 CON +2 INT).
So would my Gray Elf be (-2STR +2 DEX -2 CON +4 INT) when converted to Pathfinder?
I am merely interested in how the conversion works, not what particular GM's would allow in their campaigns.
Just change the-2 CON to -2 STR. Is this the only sub-race of elf you are changing.
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Why not just use the Elf stats and flavour them as different via their fluff and possibly traits?
^^^This^^^
Just reflavor to fit. In Pathfinder, well Golarion, an elf is an elf is an elf. There are ethnic groups (aquatic elves, desert elves, the forlorn, gray elves (from the Mordant Spire), snow elves and wild elves) and of course the drow (different all together). What really separates them is flavor and region of the world.
Another way of looking at it is that Pathfinder's elves gain the ability bonuses of 3.5's standard (+2 Dex) and gray elf (+2 Int), and only take the penalty of the stanard (-2 Con).
One point to consider: on page 13 of the Pathfinder Core Rules, under the description of "Stacking" it says, "Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies."
I just thought the point was relevant.
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my character isn't from Golarion, he is a Gray Elf from a 3.5 world, and in that world they are smarter than the average elf.
If he's from another world, nothing changes. He's a Gray Elf, smarter than the average elf of his home world. On Golarion, he will discover that *all* Golarion elves are smarter than the average elf of his homeworld, and that he's right there equal with them, intellect-wise.
(He might be a bit bummed to find out that Golarion elves are physically stronger than him, 'though.)
If, on the other hand, you want to play an elf who is, by Golarion standards, smarter (but weaker) than the average Golarion elf, and your GM is okay with it, -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex, +4 Int is certainly one way to make a 'Golarion version of a Gray Elf.'
That's the GM's choice to make, but, by your own clarification, he's a non-Golarion Grey Elf, so he wouldn't suddenly add Golarion elven stats to his pre-existing Grey Elf stats.
Additionally, the rationale for stacking the Golarion Elven +2 Intelligence with the Gray Elven +2 Intelligence would also apply to the elven Dexterity and Constitution modifiers. If the Gray Elf was transformed to *add* the Golarion Elven racial Int bonus to his pre-existing Grey Elven Int bonus, then, logically, the same exact modification / stacking would happen to his Dex and Con, giving him final stat adjustments of -2 Str, +4 Dex, -4 Con and +4 Int.
That's kind of a zig-zaggy set of modifiers, pitching from one extreme to the other, so I'm not sure I'd want to play that.
Another option would be to just take the -2 Str penalty of the Grey Elf, and find some other way, other than an extra +2 Intelligence, to get some sort of magical or intellectual enhancement appropriate to the concept.
That sort of minor buff could counter the additional -2 Str penalty he'd have over a standard Golarion elf, and still make him 'more magical' or 'smarter' than even the standard Golarion elf, without just stacking on more points of Intelligence.
Sample 'smart' or 'magick-y' options;
1) Reroll one knowledge check / day for each point of your Int modifier.
2) Can roll for knowledge checks of up to DC 15, even if you don't have that knowledge skill (normally max DC 10 untrained).
3) Your choice of +2 to Knowledge - arcana and Spellcraft checks (if you have them as class skills) or they always count as class skills for you (if you do not). If you later take a level in a class that already does provide them as class skills, you can trade up to the +2 bonus.
4) Once / day you can ignore one level of metamagic adjustment to a spell that you are casting. (You must know the metamagic feat, and you cannot reduce a metamagic modifier below +0.)
5) +2 racial bonus to all knowledge checks.
6) +1 racial bonus to your caster level for arcane spells.
7) gnome-like innate spellcasting, your choice of; detect magic, prestidigitation and read magic, 3 castings / day at character level (one of each, three of one, 2 of one, 1 of another, whatever) for a non-spellcaster *or* one extra cantrip prepared (from your list) for a spellcaster (so a 1st level grey elven wizard would be able to prepare 4 cantrips a day, instead of 3).
If the Gray Elf was transformed to *add* the Golarion Elven racial Int bonus to his pre-existing Grey Elven Int bonus, then, logically, the same exact modification / stacking would happen to his Dex and Con, giving him final stat adjustments of -2 Str, +4 Dex, -4 Con and +4 Int.
I think this is the most relevant point regarding the Gray Elf conversion from 3.5 to PF. And, it makes a compelling argument for observing the Pathfinder rule about stacking (as stated above, pg. 13 of Core Rules) that bonuses of the same type do not stack.
The Golarion Elf is already the Pathfinderized Gray Elf.
Pathfinderized
I like that. <G>
Why not just use the Elf stats and flavour them as different via their fluff and possibly traits?^^^This^^^
Just reflavor to fit. In Pathfinder, well Golarion, an elf is an elf is an elf. There are ethnic groups (aquatic elves, desert elves, the forlorn, gray elves (from the Mordant Spire), snow elves and wild elves) and of course the drow (different all together). What really separates them is flavor and region of the world.
Another way of looking at it is that Pathfinder's elves gain the ability bonuses of 3.5's standard (+2 Dex) and gray elf (+2 Int), and only take the penalty of the stanard (-2 Con).
I just want to know the stat conversion only. I've read about elves and how they work in the world of Golarion, but my character isn't from Golarion, he is a Gray Elf from a 3.5 world, and in that world they are smarter than the average elf.
I'd like to know how it actually works in the conversion, not what people think is a balanced way to do it.
In my opinion replacing -2 CON with -2 STR doesn't make sense, because gray elves are weaker and less robust than a normal elf. Keeping it the same as the standard elf in pathfinder doesn't make sense either, because they aren't standard, they are weaker than their brethren because they spend less time fighting the battle of good and more time practicing magic hence their higher intelligence. And really in 3.5 they weren't a race. They were playable because the monster manual gave them no level adjustment and they had an easy stat conversion. If you want to get technical they were a PC playable monster not a race.
If you are a 3.5 elf from a 3,5 world, just keep your 3.5 stats :
-2 str -2 con and +2 dex +2 int
since that would make the most sense..
I recommend just swapping out the stats for those of the standard 'statistically superior' Pathfinder Elf, but well if you want to make sense all the way keep the strength penalty. Just adding a 3.5 template to a pathfinder elf is not the offcial way (since there is none).
I know I am not supposed to say, but adding +4 int isn't balanced, or necesary for your character concept, best just to convert to a pathfinder elf and take the good with the bad.