I'm about to start my first Pathfinder game, after coming from a long 3.5 background. I've got most of my usual gaming crew and one person that's reasonably new.
Let's just say that his taste in characters is... unusual and leave it at that. This game is no exception.
He asked me for some help in putting together a Transmutation Specialist Wizard that specialized in the "XXXX Shape" line of spells. Not exactly optimal, as I pointed out, but he generally has some fun with his unusual characters.
I'm kind of stumped as to even how to go about helping him with it. He's mainly looking to change shape and help fight/scout/whatever once he gets to the right levels and buff the party the rest of the time.
For reference, it's a 25-point buy, with anything from the Core and APG legal.
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If he's not looking to cast a lot of spells that require saves, he could put a minimal score in INT, and put his higher ability scores in physical stats.
After that, he'll want to (obviously) take the appropriate polymorph spells, along with self buffs at first.
Making the character a dwarf will give him some survivability, as well as weapon proficiencies. Human can do the same, if you put the ability bonus in CON, and use the feat for a martial or exotic weapon proficiency. Elf will make you more nimble, and also has some weapon proficiencies. Half-orc has Ferocity, especially useful if you plan on being close to enemies that will hit you, and you can put his bonus stat anywhere.
Toughness wouldn't be a bad idea for a first feat.
I'm sure there are more qualified people to take it from here..
"What a twist!"
Couldn't help it..
(20 point buy)
Elf Ranger/1 Transmuter/5 Eldritch Knight/4
Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 20, Wis 10, Cha 10
HP: 74; Fort +6; Ref +7; Will +5 (+2 vs enchantments,); Initiative +3
BAB: +7/+2
Feats: Scribe Scroll, Dodge, Toughness, Eldritch claws (APG), Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, Still spell, Combat Casting
Special Features: Favored Enemy (Dragon, Undead, or Evil Outsider +2), Favored Class (Wizard, HP option), Shapechange subschool(can grow a natural attack, with a +1 to hit and damage for 1 round 3+int mod per day), Forbidden Schools (evocation, Divination)
REMEMBER: Ranger for 2 good saves, stealth and perception as class skills, prof. in all martial weapons (for EK). Scribe Scroll, Dodge, Silent Spell are bonus Feats. Forbidden schools: Evocation because boom casting is sub-optimal, more so for this build. Divination is useful, but less so than the others for this build. False life and vampiric touch help with staying power (Necromancy). Summoning for utility and offensive support, mage armor (Conjuration). Blurr, mirror image, invisibility (with greater), along with some good debuffs (Illusion). Resist energy, dispell magic, stone skin plus others (Abjuration). Enchantment could also be given up, but it offers a lot of utility.
Kierato's idea is pretty solid.
You'll want to go Eldritch Knight to get your BAB up and get some bonus feats.
However, it really just sounds like this person should play a druid. It would be the same exact idea, except better earlier...and all the way through actually.
Kierato's idea is pretty solid.
You'll want to go Eldritch Knight to get your BAB up and get some bonus feats.
However, it really just sounds like this person should play a druid. It would be the same exact idea, except better earlier...and all the way through actually.
Better earlier, no multiclassing, but no form of the dragon goodness.
Better earlier, no multiclassing, but no form of the dragon goodness.
Actually, druid was the first thing I suggested after hearing his character concept, but Kierato nailed it on the first try - he doesn't want to miss out on dragon-shaping. That's a really solid build idea, as well.
Thanks!
Better earlier, no multiclassing, but no form of the dragon goodness.Actually, druid was the first thing I suggested after hearing his character concept, but Kierato nailed it on the first try - he doesn't want to miss out on dragon-shaping. That's a really solid build idea, as well.
Thanks!
It is one of my favorite concepts.
True on Form of Dragon....but missing Natural Spell on wizard style shifter. That's fairly big. You're also going to be behind spell progression unless you go pure Transmuter...in which case your BAB and HP are garbage.
True on Form of Dragon....but missing Natural Spell on wizard style shifter. That's fairly big. You're also going to be behind spell progression unless you go pure Transmuter...in which case your BAB and HP are garbage.
You will be one spell level behind in spells, which is, IMO, a worthy sacrifice for BAB and HP.
Witch is an option too if you go for the transformation focus, but then you miss out on elemental shape, which might be worse than losing out on dragon shape.
Mountain Druid, can get Giant Shape in, but still no dragon shape.
Then there is sorceror, dragon disciple, it gives some nice physical buffs to use in any shape. Ranger 1/sorc 5/ DD 4 / EK 10
True on Form of Dragon....but missing Natural Spell on wizard style shifter. That's fairly big. You're also going to be behind spell progression unless you go pure Transmuter...in which case your BAB and HP are garbage.You will be one spell level behind in spells, which is, IMO, a worthy sacrifice for BAB and HP.
You'll be two levels behind pure caster progression, which is one full level behind what other dedicated casters are casting, which is pretty big, though as you said, not game breaking.
I still think its suboptimal compared to a druid doing the same shtick, but that's all I'm going to say about it. What matters is what the person's going to enjoy playing.
To add onto K's build: Take the Magical Knack trait, for a build that loses two caster levels it's pretty much a non-decision. Maybe Warrior of Old as well, but that's up to you. I just like initiative bonuses especially if I'm going to have to cast to shift, then still get into place before I can full attack.
Witch is an option too if you go for the transformation focus, but then you miss out on elemental shape, which might be worse than losing out on dragon shape.
Mountain Druid, can get Giant Shape in, but still no dragon shape.
Then there is sorceror, dragon disciple, it gives some nice physical buffs to use in any shape. Ranger 1/sorc 5/ DD 4 / EK 10
Good points, though I would go Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/DD 4/EK 10 as it synergizes much better. Since your build already loses 9th level spells, it's not a huge loss losing one more Caster Level, other than getting spells slower.
Drop Int to 19, you don't need to do any more than cast up to 9th level spells. Use it to up your Str and fitter some into Con.
Combat Casting is pretty useless since you won't be doing a whole lot of casting while transformed. Get Improved Initiative - or anything - instead and hope you can go first.
Drop Int to 19, you don't need to do any more than cast up to 9th level spells. Use it to up your Str and fitter some into Con.
Combat Casting is pretty useless since you won't be doing a whole lot of casting while transformed. Get Improved Initiative - or anything - instead and hope you can go first.
I'd take that a step further and say that, unless you plan on casting spells with DCs, you can drop Int even more, relying on Int boosting items to get to 19 Int. That will give you a lot more to spend on physical score. Human might even be better for the build to grab an extra feat and negate the hit to Con. Since Dex and Int don't both need to be real high to do what the character wants, it may be on overall win.
I boosted Int for more spells per day and rely on transformations spells and stat boosting items for physical ability scores.
Another thought is to go barbarian instead of ranger. 2 less skill points, lose stealth as a class skill, reflex save drops by 2, but gain rage for +4 str and Con, 2 more hp, and extra rage feats to get more rounds per day. It is a more offensive build while the range was more utility.
I boosted Int for more spells per day and rely on transformations spells and stat boosting items for physical ability scores.
Another thought is to go barbarian instead of ranger. 2 less skill points, lose stealth as a class skill, reflex save drops by 2, but gain rage for +4 str and Con, 2 more hp, and extra rage feats to get more rounds per day. It is a more offensive build while the range was more utility.
I still think it works better having high physical scores AND boosting spells and items, if you are going to be in melee. The extra spells/day don't matter as much since you're really not going to be casting once you shift. Plus, you can use Int boosting items to get those extra spells when you need them, up to a certain limit.
Don't forget about transformation for shoring up BAB and weapon proficiencies, just be sure to cast it after any other buffs.
I would also recommend resilient sphere if he needs to buy some time to buff (though the fight will probably be over by the time he's ready to wade in).
Good points, though I would go Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/DD 4/EK 10 as it synergizes much better. Since your build already loses 9th level spells, it's not a huge loss losing one more Caster Level, other than getting spells slower.Witch is an option too if you go for the transformation focus, but then you miss out on elemental shape, which might be worse than losing out on dragon shape.
Mountain Druid, can get Giant Shape in, but still no dragon shape.
Then there is sorceror, dragon disciple, it gives some nice physical buffs to use in any shape. Ranger 1/sorc 5/ DD 4 / EK 10
True, I was thinking ranger because the OP mentioned scouting, but this is a much more efficient build, just needs to boost charisma to 18 which can be done without much trouble with items and a base charisma of 12, add in a belt for +6 on all physical scores (eventually), might have to encourage the player to take craft wondrous item, to get those items cheaper/sooner and upgrade them when he levels up.
True, I was thinking ranger because the OP mentioned scouting, but this is a much more efficient build, just needs to boost charisma to 18 which can be done without much trouble with items and a base charisma of 12.Good points, though I would go Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/DD 4/EK 10 as it synergizes much better. Since your build already loses 9th level spells, it's not a huge loss losing one more Caster Level, other than getting spells slower.Witch is an option too if you go for the transformation focus, but then you miss out on elemental shape, which might be worse than losing out on dragon shape.
Mountain Druid, can get Giant Shape in, but still no dragon shape.
Then there is sorceror, dragon disciple, it gives some nice physical buffs to use in any shape. Ranger 1/sorc 5/ DD 4 / EK 10
Also, the player wanted a transmuter. If we are going sorcerer, I would suggest Abberant (+50% duration to polymorph spells).
Also, the player wanted a transmuter. If we are going sorcerer, I would suggest Abberant (+50% duration to polymorph spells).True, I was thinking ranger because the OP mentioned scouting, but this is a much more efficient build, just needs to boost charisma to 18 which can be done without much trouble with items and a base charisma of 12.Good points, though I would go Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/DD 4/EK 10 as it synergizes much better. Since your build already loses 9th level spells, it's not a huge loss losing one more Caster Level, other than getting spells slower.Witch is an option too if you go for the transformation focus, but then you miss out on elemental shape, which might be worse than losing out on dragon shape.
Mountain Druid, can get Giant Shape in, but still no dragon shape.
Then there is sorceror, dragon disciple, it gives some nice physical buffs to use in any shape. Ranger 1/sorc 5/ DD 4 / EK 10
True, I'd allow the DD mechanics to stand with abberation bloodline too though, it might represent some freakish experimentation on his body.
Better earlier, no multiclassing, but no form of the dragon goodness.Kierato's idea is pretty solid.
You'll want to go Eldritch Knight to get your BAB up and get some bonus feats.
However, it really just sounds like this person should play a druid. It would be the same exact idea, except better earlier...and all the way through actually.
I have a vain hope that Ultimate Magic will have a feat or archetype or something that enables Dragon shaping (or enabling Magical Beasts, or applying templates) into their wild-shape progression... a Dragon Shaman, perhaps... I know that people love slagging Druids as being too powerful, but in a core-only game, they really don't have much feat support.
But that's not really in keeping with the OP, so my apologies.