chants "Changeling" in sets of three's
stands beside a pile of WOD books, Ebberron books, copies of folkloric tales of fey child theft, and an annotated copy of "Thomas the Rhymer". (all collected as a material focus)
waits for summoning to produce
chants "Changeling" in sets of three's
stands beside a pile of WOD books, Ebberron books, copies of folkloric tales of fey child theft, and an annotated copy of "Thomas the Rhymer". (all collected as a material focus)
waits for summoning to produce
All will be revealed in Pathfinder #43: The Haunting of Harrowstone.
But here's a spoiler: They're awesome.
They are awesome! Very cool RP hook built right into the race. Definitely playing one in Carrion Crown.
I am a bit confused about the ability score adjustments though, they don't seem to match up completely with the description or the sample stats?
I was also wondering where the stats came from. As written, they seem to be a 16 point buy so perhaps someone just missed a point somewhere and it was just using an alternate array.
The thing I find most odd is that they seem tailor made to be witches based on their descriptions. Unfortunately, witches are INT based casters and they get no bonus to INT.
They'll never errata it at this point, but perhaps the original intent was to have +2 INT, +2 CHA, -2 CON which would make them great for most of the casting classes. It would also make the stat block make a bit more sense.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Yeah, I thought the same thing.
Even the ability score descriptions describes them as having "a sharp wit", which I suppose could be Wisdom, but I generally associate wit with Intelligence.
Either way, works for me. I might be playing an Inquisitor anyway, so the Wisdom bump will be nice. :D
Doh, yeah, it looks like she got built as more of a PC than using the NPC generation stats. If you're really concerned with her power level - which doesn't seem to be a big issue here, but just in case - bump her up a CR and you're solid. I have a feeling you'll be seeing the changeling again down the line, though, so we'll be sure to catch that.
Yeah, I thought the same thing.
Even the ability score descriptions describes them as having "a sharp wit", which I suppose could be Wisdom, but I generally associate wit with Intelligence.
Either way, works for me. I might be playing an Inquisitor anyway, so the Wisdom bump will be nice. :D
Ha, see I usually think Charisma for that. :P But in any case, an changeling inquisitor sounds awesome. I snuck one into Rule of Fear already too!
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They'll never errata it at this point, but perhaps the original intent was to have +2 INT, +2 CHA, -2 CON which would make them great for most of the casting classes. It would also make the stat block make a bit more sense.
Score Points
Str 10 0Dex 9 -1
Con 12 (14-2) 4
Int 17 13
Wis 10 (8+2) -2
Cha 13 (11+2) 1
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15
I stat block adds up okay, just isn't a std array.
When I saw this I thought Ravenloft's Changelings (i.e. a human who's soul was taken by a fey. The human becomes emotionless and pationless), but this thing is complitely different (child of a hag, raised in human society), and this is fun too!
Guys, since there are already changelings in my campaign (the RL ones), any suggestion to rename this PF Chageling to another name for my campaign?
Joël
One question I have is this.
Second paragraph of the Changeling say they are always female.
Under habit and society in the 3rd paragraph they say Hags generally don't allow the union of two Changeling to result in off spring.
So how can there be offspring between two changelings if there are only females?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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They'll never errata it at this point, but perhaps the original intent was to have +2 INT, +2 CHA, -2 CON which would make them great for most of the casting classes. It would also make the stat block make a bit more sense.
Score Points
Str 10 0
Dex 9 -1
Con 12 (14-2) 4
Int 17 13
Wis 10 (8+2) -2
Cha 13 (11+2) 1
____
15I stat block adds up okay, just isn't a std array.
A 14 costs 5 points, not 4.
One question I have is this.
Second paragraph of the Changeling say they are always female.
Under habit and society in the 3rd paragraph they say Hags generally don't allow the union of two Changeling to result in off spring.
So how can there be offspring between two changelings if there are only females?
I like your question and I had a response all ready about how since changelings are physically similar to the father's race, they likely mate in a similar way. In Mass Effect, there is a species that all appear female that can make a child with any intelligent life form (asari).
Unfortunately, when I went to make sure this reading was right, I noticed that it was just a matter of unclear pronouns. Changelings are rare, so they don't appear often. Hags only seldom allow their (the hags') unions to make offspring. I like your reading better, though.
One question I have is this.
Second paragraph of the Changeling say they are always female.
Under habit and society in the 3rd paragraph they say Hags generally don't allow the union of two Changeling to result in off spring.
So how can there be offspring between two changelings if there are only females?
I like your question and I had a response all ready about how since changelings are physically similar to the father's race, they likely mate in a similar way. In Mass Effect, there is a species that all appear female that can make a child with any intelligent life form (asari).
Unfortunately, when I went to make sure this reading was right, I noticed that it was just a matter of unclear pronouns. Changelings are rare, so they don't appear often. Hags only seldom allow their (the hags') unions to make offspring. I like your reading better, though.
That makes more sense. I was reading "their" as the changelings union not he Hags union.
Wait, changlings are a Hag's offspring not Fey, now that is really disapointing.
Wait, changlings are a Hag's offspring not Fey, now that is really disapointing.
Elements of folklore don't always make the transition into the rules of a game with countless names stolen from legendry with perfect seamlessness.
As hags in the tradition of the game have long stolen babies and left behind their own offspring, folkloric descriptions of changelings (ala Wikipedia: "being the offspring of a fairy, troll, elf or other legendary creature that has been secretly left in the place of a human child") seemed the perfect name for their spawn. That the needs of the game mean that hags are "monstrous humanoids" and not "fey" and that their magical offspring are "humanoid" (all being made-up terms divested from the majority of their dictionary definition to summarize shared rules)... well, that is what it is and shouldn't be viewed through the lens of the folklorist too critically.
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Wait, changlings are a Hag's offspring not Fey, now that is really disapointing.Elements of folklore don't always make the transition into the rules of a game with countless names stolen from legendry with perfect seamlessness.
As hags in the tradition of the game have long stolen babies and left behind their own offspring, folkloric descriptions of changelings (ala Wikipedia: "being the offspring of a fairy, troll, elf or other legendary creature that has been secretly left in the place of a human child") seemed the perfect name for their spawn. That the needs of the game mean that hags are "monstrous humanoids" and not "fey" and that their magical offspring are "humanoid" (all being made-up terms divested from the majority of their dictionary definition to summarize shared rules)... well, that is what it is and shouldn't be viewed through the lens of the folklorist too critically.
+1
The spirit of the legend is here, even if there is some crunch that literally transcribed seem contradictory.
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Thanks guys, I really appreciate that.
I pride myself on keeping to the mythologic and folkloric roots of monsters that we present in the APs and in our Bestiary products as much as possible. That's why you so often see sidebars on the origins of monsters, from "Adaros in Myth" to "The Rot Grub Legacy." And while the restrictions of the medium we're telling our stories in means that we can't always be 100% true to the characters and abilities in these tales, it's important to me that we capture that spirit and give readers the opportunity to have adventures in the vein of the legends such beings come from.
And it gives me an awesome excuse to have tons of SUPER COOL monster books in my office library. :)
I love those side bars!
Yay! We'll totally keep doing them them!
Chalk it up to aspergers....but I'm fixated on the changeling and can't wait.
Are we talking half hag and half some other race ???
Or something else ???
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Chalk it up to aspergers....but I'm fixated on the changeling and can't wait.
Are we talking half hag and half some other race ???
Or something else ???
More or less. Changelings are the (always) female children of hags and pretty some poor (soon to be deceased) male of another species. One of their abilities varies depending on the type of hag their mother was.
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As a fan of all things hags I'm very much in love with the new changelings and will be implementing them in most of my games.
In my Hags research folder I have a flow chart about how hags and their offspring would/could happen (like what happens when a Hag and Hagspawn breed etc) using the Hag Bloodline from 3.5 Unearthed Arcana and various hag versions of planetouched and tieflings. I've seen a Hag Bloodline for sorcerers on these forums that could also be the result of a Changeling who ignored her mother's call and went on to have children of her own, the taint of the crone just lurking beneath the skin...
Overall I am pleased with the new race and their abilities. Just adding my 2cp
Wait, changlings are a Hag's offspring not Fey, now that is really disapointing.
I feel your concerns, buddy. It honestly annoys me to no end that D&D & Pathfinder kobolds are little dragon men. What have underground mining faeries have to do with dragons?
But I'm actually pretty happy with the idea of Pathfinder changelings for three fairly solid reasons.
1) As Mr. Schneider points out, Hags do have a long association within the game for cradle-swapping.
2) Hags are very fey. In the same way that Derro, Gnomes, and Spriggans are for Humanoids, Hags are the most faerie-toned and originating of Monstrous Humanoids. I would not bat an eye at a Hag or Changeling Sorcerer taking the Fey bloodline.
3) There is nothing stopping you or me from taking the Changeling race as is and saying the character is the child of a dryad, nymph, nereid, or anything like that. It would fit rather well, I think.
In fact, I think there are a couple of rather predatory female fey in the D20 books for whom the
Heck, a dryad changeling could get
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I apologize if my spoiler tags are unnecessary. I have to admit I don't know what aspects of a playable race in an adventure-path's bestiary pages should be considered spoiler-worthy.
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Wait, changlings are a Hag's offspring not Fey, now that is really disapointing.I feel your concerns, buddy. It honestly annoys me to no end that D&D & Pathfinder kobolds are little dragon men. What have underground mining faeries have to do with dragons?
3ed D&D secured the image of draconic kobolds back in 2000 and honestly, since Meepo the Kobold Commando there was no turning back.
3ed D&D secured the image of draconic kobolds back in 2000 and honestly, since Meepo the Kobold Commando there was no turning back.
I know. *sulk* Doesn't mean I have to like it. That'd be a topic for another thread, though.
More or less. Changelings are the (always) female children of hags and pretty some poor (soon to be deceased) male of another species. One of their abilities varies depending on the type of hag their mother was.
What is the visual description like ?.....can they pass for "normal" humans ? or are they to "hag" looking ?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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More or less. Changelings are the (always) female children of hags and pretty some poor (soon to be deceased) male of another species. One of their abilities varies depending on the type of hag their mother was.What is the visual description like ?.....can they pass for "normal" humans ? or are they to "hag" looking ?
There's a picture of one in the Carrion Crown Player's Guide. They aren't particularly haggish looking, but they do have some pretty obvious physical features (pale skin, claws, heterochromia)
3ed D&D secured the image of draconic kobolds back in 2000 and honestly, since Meepo the Kobold Commando there was no turning back.
My first memory of Kobolds is from 1st ed, 'Caves of Chaos' module. (Still a great, fun romp if DM'd properly!) The descriptions were vague, and the artwork, while fun, made us all think that the lil fellers were dog-people! So that's how my group portrayed them for decades, until 3rd ed & Meepo! :D
I find the concept of the new PF changelings, interesting. I look forward to playing with/against one, and shall reserve any judgment until such time. :)
AND, +1 for sidebars! Please do keep them up. :)
There's a picture of one in the Carrion Crown Player's Guide. They aren't particularly haggish looking, but they do have some pretty obvious physical features (pale skin, claws, heterochromia)
Pale skin, claws, and mult-colored eye's....sounds COOL;)
I have the players guide in my downloads....but my computer won't go "online" at the moment (wireless router issues) and roomies computer can't open the PDF's (adobe seems to conflict with her transcription program)....so I guess I'll just have to frickin wait :(
Thanks Nightstalker
I think a case could be made for Night-Hag based Tieflings, honestly.
Yeah I really do like the picture for the changling and a trait for the night hag would be cool plus and any new types of hags as well. I do think that she should have a +2 to Int not wisdom both because of the changling's description and that Hags are intelligent plus the whole changlings/hags as witchs thing.
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I think a case could be made for Night-Hag based Tieflings, honestly.
I had the chance to play one in my friend's game- Raziel Belladonna and she was a lot of fun. The DM was tweaking the spell-like abilities to make her more hag-like, sleep instead of darkness etc. She had the Hag Bloodline from Unearthed Arcana.He was also using variations of the Fiendish Heritor feats to allow her to become closer to a true hag as she developed.
If they put make any of the Hag Sorcerer bloodlines I've seen on here official, I'll definitely consider a level of sorcerer just for flavor.
Okay, it is perhaps a little odd that a race derived from the archetypical stock of witches isn't optimized for witchery. I'd kind of like to know more about the designer decision for that, myself.
On the other hand, they aren't stacked against it, are they? It isn't as if they have a penalty to their intelligence.
Still, unless you're concerned about Pathfinder Society validity, it isn't anything you can't house-rule. Switch the bonus from Wis to Int and there you go. Or give a Changeling something like the Tieflings have, where they have a +1 to all stuff relating to Sorcerer-hood if they have the Infernal or Abyssal bloodlines, to make up for their charisma penalty.
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I had a look at the hag ability scores in the Bestiary
Annis: int 13, Wis 13 cha 10
Green int 15 wis 13 cha 14
sea int 12 wis 13 cha 15
There's a case for either way. their wisdon is pretty much set at 13, sea and green hags have higher cha or int, respectively. The annis is the only one who's wis is tied with another ability score.
you can make a case either way. I'm houseruling that changelings get an Int/cha bonus in my game, to make the class more attractive.
alternately, you could rule that each hag type gets a different score mod based on their ancestry. int/wis for annis, intcha for green, wis/cha for sea. most players would pick green, because that's the "default" hag.
I had a look at the hag ability scores in the Bestiary
Annis: int 13, Wis 13 cha 10
Green int 15 wis 13 cha 14
sea int 12 wis 13 cha 15
There's a case for either way. their wisdon is pretty much set at 13, sea and green hags have higher cha or int, respectively. The annis is the only one who's wis is tied with another ability score.
you can make a case either way. I'm houseruling that changelings get an Int/cha bonus in my game, to make the class more attractive.
alternately, you could rule that each hag type gets a different score mod based on their ancestry. int/wis for annis, intcha for green, wis/cha for sea. most players would pick green, because that's the "default" hag.
What page is the annis hag on?
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What page is the annis hag on?I had a look at the hag ability scores in the Bestiary
Annis: int 13, Wis 13 cha 10
Green int 15 wis 13 cha 14
sea int 12 wis 13 cha 15
There's a case for either way. their wisdon is pretty much set at 13, sea and green hags have higher cha or int, respectively. The annis is the only one who's wis is tied with another ability score.
you can make a case either way. I'm houseruling that changelings get an Int/cha bonus in my game, to make the class more attractive.
alternately, you could rule that each hag type gets a different score mod based on their ancestry. int/wis for annis, intcha for green, wis/cha for sea. most players would pick green, because that's the "default" hag.
That's in the Bonus Bestiary, the free release from Free RPG Day 2008. One of the few things that had to be cut for space in the Bestiary, not due to weirdness or whatnot.
(http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88x4)
What about the Night Hag? Are they Hags like the Green, Anis, and Sea? If they are what would changeling of Night Hag get?
I'm having to wait till the full stat's are released later this month, but from what I'm seeing on the forums....I'm not sure that I see the problem.
Sure a +2 Int makes more sense for a changeling playing a witch...but I would rather not see the race forced into one class idea (especially such a stereo typical idea).
I'm also assuming that the potential +1 trait bonus to claw damage is drawn from a list of changeling specific traits ???
Or is it part of the base racial abilities ? (seems strange to do a trait bonus as a racial ability....although I'm not saying I disapprove).
What about the Night Hag? Are they Hags like the Green, Anis, and Sea? If they are what would changeling of Night Hag get?
Night hag "patron"......I like ;)
What about the Night Hag? Are they Hags like the Green, Anis, and Sea? If they are what would changeling of Night Hag get?
Night Hags are outsiders, not monstrous humanoids. In other cosmologies and campaign settings, Night Hags are the mothers of terrestrial hags, not changeling children. I'm not sure if Paizo has defined their relationship in Golarion yet.
What about the Night Hag? Are they Hags like the Green, Anis, and Sea? If they are what would changeling of Night Hag get?
Night hags are fiends, not natural creatures. They have other methods of spawning that don't involve changelings.