Classic example of "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I think this was the best outcome.
WBC members are still asshats. :P
I think this was the best outcome.
WBC members are still asshats. :P
That was my thinking.
If one of them had a funeral for a loved one, can I protest with a sign that said "Thank god for [insert reason of death here]"?
I do not think I could ever bring myself to actually do that, but I would want to.
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I think this was the best outcome.
WBC members are still asshats. :P
That was my thinking.
If one of them had a funeral for a loved one, can I protest with a sign that said "Thank god for [insert reason of death here]"?
I do not think I could ever bring myself to actually do that, but I would want to.
That's called "class".
This would be categorically true if there weren't X million of us and less than 100 of them.
Are you suggesting the freedom of speech only applies to the accepted majority?
That's called "class".
First time I've ever been accused of that.
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If we are to be protected in speaking out against them, they must be protected in speaking out themselves.This would be categorically true if there weren't X million of us and less than 100 of them.
But I get what you're saying.
I would like to shoot each of them in the face.
However, I do not wish to be shot in the face myself.
Thus, I agree that none of us shall be shot in the face.
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I think this was the best outcome.
WBC members are still asshats. :P
That was my thinking.
If one of them had a funeral for a loved one, can I protest with a sign that said "Thank god for [insert reason of death here]"?
I do not think I could ever bring myself to actually do that, but I would want to.
Same here! And, whenever one of them dies, I hope thousands show up to protest at the funeral. If that makes me a bad zombie, then so be it.
Agreed, on it's best days the US is LN, and on it's worst it's pretty much LE.
I was originally going to point out that the above was a completely dumb ass statement, but I decided to refrain from doing so. :P
Will wonders never cease.
Haters gonna hate. :)
If that makes me a bad zombie, then so be it.
You know...a proper zombie would eat their brains.
Interesting that it was nearly unanimous (8-1). Alito was the lone dissenting justice.
On what basis could he possibly dissent? I'm going to have to read that . . . .
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Same here! And, whenever one of them dies, I hope thousands show up to protest at the funeral. If that makes me a bad zombie, then so be it.I think this was the best outcome.
WBC members are still asshats. :P
That was my thinking.
If one of them had a funeral for a loved one, can I protest with a sign that said "Thank god for [insert reason of death here]"?
I do not think I could ever bring myself to actually do that, but I would want to.
I do not, when Fred and his daughter Shirley pass, I hope that no one shows up. That they become nothing more then a footnote in history, just as they deserve.
I'm SO glad they are banned from entering the UK under out Hate Crime laws :-)
unfortunatly theses idiots are home grown so we can't really kick'em out.
As long as they are required to keep a proper distance from the actual funeral thats the best we can do and still allow them the same freedoms that we all enjoy.
Agreed, on it's best days the US is LN, and on it's worst it's pretty much LE.
I, as a former service member and rather proud citizen would have to politely disagree with your assesment of the countries overall alignment.
I would like to remind you of all the humanitarian work the U.S. has done throughout it's rather brief history compaired to ANY other nation on this planet.
How much of our current tax dollars go to fund underdeveloped nations.
Am I denying our mistakes ? certainly not but we have and continue to learn from them and hopefully we can be used as a good and a negative example to help others learn.
We may not be LG but at the best we are CG and at worst we are CN. IMO.
We may not be LG but at the best we are CG and at worst we are CN. IMO.
Interesting viewpoint. Very interesting.
Not me I don't plan on derailing this thread any more than it has been.
It just struck me a little unpatriotic to associate MY country with anything even close to relateing to evil even in jest or in a fantasy context.
Back to the thread however, I think it was the right ruleing. I dislike just about everything WBC has to say and I honestly would make not move to help them if they needed it but then again neither would I go out of my way to harm them.
The right of free speech(reguardless of popularity) has been upheld once again and THAT'S whats important.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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It just struck me a little unpatriotic to associate MY country with anything even close to relateing to evil even in jest or in a fantasy context.
I hear that a lot of Germans felt the same way about their country during the Third Reich.
GODWIN!*
*Bonus points if you can interpret my statement to be the same as "America is like Nazi Germany"** and, thus, be further offended.
**Oooh! You could even take this quote out of context to demonstrate my lack of patriotism.
Oooh! We're going to debate the alignment of America?
I predict this will end well...
** spoiler omitted **
Can I play? I vote LN.
I would say LN as well.
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We may not be LG but at the best we are CG and at worst we are CN. IMO.
The founders intent seemed to be NG. Freedom from oppressive laws and authority was a huge deal, and yet there was the recognition that a certain amount of regulation was a necessity to keep people from being complete dicks to each other.
Alito's dissent was nicely reasoned, even if I disagree with it. He noted the the court had upheld the ability of words to be harmful, and harmful acts to be actionable, leaving them some wiggle room to define harmful words as harmful acts. I like that he pointed out the tortured rationalizations of some of the others, who claimed that the WBC signs weren't 'profanity' despite using words like hell and f%&+. I didn't get a clear idea of whose statement it was, but one of them in particular seemed less like a defense of the First Amendment, and more like 'covering my ass because this isn't going to be a popular ruling.' (Definitely not Scalia. I think it's safe to say that he doesn't think he's doing his job if he hasn't tweaked someone's nose, as there's almost always a few pointed snipes at his fellow Justices in his statements, making them fun reading.)
As long the WBC don't cross the line from 'celebrating human death and suffering' to 'promoting violence' or 'making threats' (like the dude who just got 25 years for threatening to kill Stone & Parker for their portrayal of Mohammed in South Park) they get to prance about, flaunting their nastiness.
Freedom's more important than comfort.
It just struck me a little unpatriotic to associate MY country with anything even close to relateing to evil even in jest or in a fantasy context.
I hear that a lot of Germans felt the same way about their country during the Third Reich.
GODWIN!*
*Bonus points if you can interpret my statement to be the same as "America is like Nazi Germany"** and, thus, be further offended.
**Oooh! You could even take this quote out of context to demonstrate my lack of patriotism.
I want to play too!
Well, let's see, there is a comparison ("Germans felt the same") and it was not the act of comparing so as to contrast.Therefore, you are saying we are like them in that regard.
How dare you!
Furthermore, you did so without taking into account all the differences between America and the Third Reich. Very unpatriotic.
Shame on you.
Note: All this is in jest.
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I totally disagree, the entire point of WBC is to grandstand. Anything that gets them news and better yet a lawsuit so that they can send forth more of their "freedom of speech," is a win in their beliefs. Don't just take my word for it look up some of what Shirley has said about it all. I am quite disappointed in the courts. There is no such thing, in my opinion, as to blanket freedom of speech. There is always an exception, for the greater good. WBC has crossed this line, jumped this shark too many times and smiled about it. It is long past time we should simply ignore these dregs on society and shut up their vile hatred. This however is just my little opinion. I wont waste more time talking about them.
How dare you!
Well played...
It's probably safe to assume that everyone here heard about the Anonymous v. WBC battle, and the hilarious results? Right?
If not, turn in your geek card on the way out the door...
Expect us.
The Internet is Serious Business.
How dare you!
Well played...
It's probably safe to assume that everyone here heard about the Anonymous v. WBC battle, and the hilarious results? Right?
If not, turn in your geek card on the way out the door...
Thanks for allowing me some entertainment while sitting at home sick today. :(
I do not, when Fred and his daughter Shirley pass, I hope that no one shows up. That they become nothing more then a footnote in history, just as they deserve.Same here! And, whenever one of them dies, I hope thousands show up to protest at the funeral. If that makes me a bad zombie, then so be it.I think this was the best outcome.
WBC members are still asshats. :P
That was my thinking.
If one of them had a funeral for a loved one, can I protest with a sign that said "Thank god for [insert reason of death here]"?
I do not think I could ever bring myself to actually do that, but I would want to.
*THIS!*
Please stop giving these people press. Stop paying attention to them. They are as relevant as the guy wearing the sandwich placard saying, "Repent Now! The End is Near!" These people are mentally disturbed. Yes it would be nice if they got treatment, but we can't force it on them as they are at least semi-functional. Just sadly shake your head at the disturbed individuals and then move on with your life. Don't waste your energy attacking clearly mentally disturbed people.
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I was originally going to point out that the above was a completely dumb ass statement, but I decided to refrain from doing so. :P
I was originally going to point out that your response contained no coherent reasoning supporting your view, but then I decided that would be superfluous.
Are you suggesting the freedom of speech only applies to the accepted majority?
Well, obviously it doesn't. However, only those lacking human decency or common sense would do something as obviously stupid as to protest a funeral on the grounds that God hates America because the military accepts(?!? Even this is questionable) gays.
Contrary to popular opinion, the "either we all have free speech or speech isn't free" theory isn't completely black and white - nor, by such a measure, is speech actually free. Hate speech, for example, isn't really free - you can say whatever you want, but can't do so wherever you want, particularly if you wish to hold a job. Speech intended to incite riots is illegal, assuming it's intended to incite one, like, RIGHT NOW. Allowing these people to demonstrate in this manner and in these circumstances (note the "and", not "or") works to no one's advantage, benefits nobody, and is idiotic to boot. Honestly, it falls on the rest of us to shout them down, and if we fail to do so I feel that we're failing our civil obligations as citizens.
I, as a former service member and rather proud citizen would have to politely disagree with your assesment of the countries overall alignment.
I would like to remind you of all the humanitarian work the U.S. has done throughout it's rather brief history compaired to ANY other nation on this planet.
How much of our current tax dollars go to fund underdeveloped nations.
Am I denying our mistakes ? certainly not but we have and continue to learn from them and hopefully we can be used as a good and a negative example to help others learn.We may not be LG but at the best we are CG and at worst we are CN. IMO.
I appreciate your stance, and your given reasons. I would only counter-argue that what you're actually proposing is a Neutral alignment, indicating that we do good things while not really denying that we do evil things as well (any number of assasinations of South American/Middle Eastern rulers comes to mind, as does the collateral damage inflicted upon innocents in our so-called "preventative" wars - I could go on, but so could you, so that's pointless).
My own stance is not that different from your own - Evil parties can perform good works sometimes, as can "neutral" parties (for lack of a better term). I suppose I should have phrased my own position as: On most days, we're LN, but we occasionally dip into LG and LE as needed to further our own interests. I don't see the United States as Chaotic at all - it's pretty clearly a lawful society. Whether the laws we follow (and how we follow them) are by nature good or evil seems to be the point of this thread.
I totally disagree, the entire point of WBC is to grandstand.
That may be. However, let's go back a couple hundred years. Suppose someone wanted to protest a slave auction with signs that state Blacks are the same as Whites. Surely, some (many?) people would have thought that disgusting.
It was a good judgement. The price of freedom(or atleast part of it) is to have accept that you can impose your will on people...this is largely forggoten too often.
As for Phelps and the WBC...it is all a con. I don't think they actualy believe the BS they preach. It is too cause a reaction. It is best just too ignore them. That is the lovely thing about freedom...you have the freedom to ignore them.
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I totally disagree, the entire point of WBC is to grandstand.That may be. However, let's go back a couple hundred years. Suppose someone wanted to protest a slave auction with signs that state Blacks are the same as Whites. Surely, some (many?) people would have thought that disgusting.
And yet others felt quite strongly that this was not the case. Remember racial slavery in the US did not start for some time. When it did, there was always some detractors.