good advice
I agree. There is really no point to go Eldritch Knight unless you plan on attacking with weapons. You can afford to lose a caster level, as you won't end up with 9th level spells at 17 as a sorcerer, so that's not the huge concern. It's just that you may not really be getting much from going that route. Also, you'll need a level in fighter or paladin or something to get proficiency with all martial weapons. So at that point you're losing two caster levels, which may actually matter.
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All of it, really great advice so far. The way I have been playing this character is he is unsatisfied with his performance thus far. He used up all his offensive spells in the first fight od Serpent's Skull book 1, and it frustrates him to no end that his fallback is a light crossbow, a weapon he is proficient in, but not good with. I felt that giving him the eldritch knight would compensate for his initial perceived failings by making him able to handle most any situation. The Magical knack trait sounds great, don't know why I didn't get it, but I can burn a feat for it.
I think technically you could grab the Magical Knack trait to compensate for the initial level in fighter and the first level of Eldritch Knight. Magical Knack would increase your caster level of the chosen class as long as the CL is not higher than your level.
Careful there. Magical Knack only increases your caster level, it does NOT grant caster progression. So still, if you grab two levels of non-caster you will end up not getting as high level spells as you would if you stayed full caster. Sure, Magical Knack will make sure your caster level for the spells you DO have is still equal to your character level (provided you don't lose three caster levels somehow), but it will absolutely not grant you the spell progression you will miss out on.
Edit: The best way to play Dragon Disciple is usually a 4 level dip along a build base of something like: Paladin 2/Sorceror 4/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10 and then use the strength increases and such to make yourself a big ol' melee striker.
There really isn't a good way to balance huge DCs with melee might....at least that I know of (aside from Divine classes perhaps, but that is different).
Your best bet for a weapon might be a bow. You're still not going to want to be a character mixing it up in melee, unless you are completely re-tooling your character. If you go Bow, you can also dip Arcane Archer up to level 4 eventually, should you decide or feel the need to do so (though you'll lose another caster level).
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I think technically you could grab the Magical Knack trait to compensate for the initial level in fighter and the first level of Eldritch Knight. Magical Knack would increase your caster level of the chosen class as long as the CL is not higher than your level.
Careful there. Magical Knack only increases your caster level, it does NOT grant caster progression. So still, if you grab two levels of non-caster you will end up not getting as high level spells as you would if you stayed full caster. Sure, Magical Knack will make sure your caster level for the spells you DO have is still equal to your character level (provided you don't lose three caster levels somehow), but it will absolutely not grant you the spell progression you will miss out on.
I knew that, it only increases the spell DC and durations to those of a lvl, oh, let's say 10 caster rather than a level 8.
I knew that, it only increases the spell DC and durations to those of a lvl, oh, let's say 10 caster rather than a level 8.I think technically you could grab the Magical Knack trait to compensate for the initial level in fighter and the first level of Eldritch Knight. Magical Knack would increase your caster level of the chosen class as long as the CL is not higher than your level.
Careful there. Magical Knack only increases your caster level, it does NOT grant caster progression. So still, if you grab two levels of non-caster you will end up not getting as high level spells as you would if you stayed full caster. Sure, Magical Knack will make sure your caster level for the spells you DO have is still equal to your character level (provided you don't lose three caster levels somehow), but it will absolutely not grant you the spell progression you will miss out on.
Why would your caster level affect a spell's DC?
Also what level is your character now?
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One of the main mistakes of people who take the EK is the assumption that the PrC somehow makes them good at being a combatant. It really doesn't. You need to support the class with the right mix of spells, stats and/or feats. Since your a sorcerer, even getting the right spells will be difficult and I doubt you have a good stat array for it and generally speaking if you don't have the feats from level 1 it'll be too late. Without all that all EK does is make you be able to fight things that really doesn't matter for the cost of spells that can be used in fight that really do.
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One of the main mistakes of people who take the EK is the assumption that the PrC somehow makes them good at being a combatant. It really doesn't. You need to support the class with the right mix of spells, stats and/or feats. Since your a sorcerer, even getting the right spells will be difficult and I doubt you have a good stat array for it and generally speaking if you don't have the feats from level 1 it'll be too late. Without all that all EK does is make you be able to fight things that really doesn't matter for the cost of spells that can be used in fight that really do.
So what you're saying is, that unless I'm a draconic bloodline or Abyssal bloodline sorcerer, I'm wasting my time with a prestige class?
One of the main mistakes of people who take the EK is the assumption that the PrC somehow makes them good at being a combatant. It really doesn't. You need to support the class with the right mix of spells, stats and/or feats. Since your a sorcerer, even getting the right spells will be difficult and I doubt you have a good stat array for it and generally speaking if you don't have the feats from level 1 it'll be too late. Without all that all EK does is make you be able to fight things that really doesn't matter for the cost of spells that can be used in fight that really do.So what you're saying is, that unless I'm a draconic bloodline or Abyssal bloodline sorcerer, I'm wasting my time with a prestige class?
Yeah. Spontaneous casters and very strongly driven towards straight 20 builds. Without those class abilities, they're typically worse than the prepared equivalent because of the lack of restrictions on spells known and no delayed entry into higher level spells. The PrC will likely need to at least partially continue your base class abilities or provide bonuses specific to spontaneous casters, otherwise a prepared caster version of the same build will just be better.
One of the main mistakes of people who take the EK is the assumption that the PrC somehow makes them good at being a combatant. It really doesn't. You need to support the class with the right mix of spells, stats and/or feats. Since your a sorcerer, even getting the right spells will be difficult and I doubt you have a good stat array for it and generally speaking if you don't have the feats from level 1 it'll be too late. Without all that all EK does is make you be able to fight things that really doesn't matter for the cost of spells that can be used in fight that really do.So what you're saying is, that unless I'm a draconic bloodline or Abyssal bloodline sorcerer, I'm wasting my time with a prestige class?
No he is saying that you must plan it very carefully from the begining.
Also full arcane casters don't seem very impressive at first levels but be patient when you start reaching 5+ levels things are going to become so sweet.
Now if you really want to play a sorcerer that can also do things in melee then you have to create/plan the character to do exactly that, not being a sorcerer but being a sorcerer/fighter (so to speak).
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One of the main mistakes of people who take the EK is the assumption that the PrC somehow makes them good at being a combatant. It really doesn't. You need to support the class with the right mix of spells, stats and/or feats. Since your a sorcerer, even getting the right spells will be difficult and I doubt you have a good stat array for it and generally speaking if you don't have the feats from level 1 it'll be too late. Without all that all EK does is make you be able to fight things that really doesn't matter for the cost of spells that can be used in fight that really do.So what you're saying is, that unless I'm a draconic bloodline or Abyssal bloodline sorcerer, I'm wasting my time with a prestige class?
The bloodline isn't actually all that important actually. But as leo said, you MUST plan this out from the start or don't even bother. A lot of my casual gaming friends always takes the EK class with the assumption that the class is all you need and they are always very disapointed at the end.
I suppose that makes sense. If I were to go with the EK, I would be taking some combat oriented feats, and a couple fighter levels. it was the plan from the beginning.
And arranging your attributes accordingly and picking the right spells.
Now since your character is only level 1 there might be still some chance, so if you want post your character and let's see if there is anything that can be done.
Also, since you're only level one, you might be better seeing if you can switch to Draconic and go Sorc 4/Paladin 2/Dragon Disciple 4/EK 10. That's generally the way to do it with a sorcerer if you want to be a melee beast.
Edit: But as Leo said, it may also involve rearranging some stats and other choices. Generally DMs are forgiving of this at first level...
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I suppose that makes sense. If I were to go with the EK, I would be taking some combat oriented feats, and a couple fighter levels. it was the plan from the beginning.
Okay so you can deal with ONE of the three things you need. So what is your plan for the stats and spells? Without the DM saying you can respec or you being very lucky in stat and spell choices, your kinda boned. Although I suppose you can slowly swap out spells as your only level 1. But yeah the stats will be a kick in the balls barring some luck or a respec option.
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That or, y'know, magic items that will adjust my stats.
and this alias is the character I speak of. it's for a play by post since my GM is not where I am.
That doesn't help. your suppose to have those item on TOP of proper stats by the time you get said items. Unless your breaking WBL wide open and then some as at higher levels, your gonna need epic +8 to stat or more items.
That doesn't help. your suppose to have those item on TOP of proper stats by the time you get said items. Unless your breaking WBL wide open and then some as at higher levels, your gonna need epic +8 to stat or more items.That or, y'know, magic items that will adjust my stats.
and this alias is the character I speak of. it's for a play by post since my GM is not where I am.
+1
Stat items are needed to make you better, not make up for low stats.Now about your character, did you use point buy or did you roll the stats? Also a list of the spells you have chose so far would be helpfull.
I have an infernal bloodline sorcerer, and was curious if I should stay with full Sorcerer for it, or go with the eldritch knight prestige class. I will only be playing this character to level 17, due to the campaign."Only to level 17"? That's farther than most campaigns will ever go.
I think that most APs go up to 16-17.
That or, y'know, magic items that will adjust my stats.
and this alias is the character I speak of. it's for a play by post since my GM is not where I am.
Actually, there are a number of ways to make it work, and imo it all hinges on your spell selection. The main thing is, choose a few combat shticks/strategies, and build on them.Basically, if you want to be effective as an eldritch knight, your spells will need to supplement your combat ability. The defence aspect of this is slightly more straightforward-at lower levels, spells like mirror image, mage armour and shield will keep you protected, whilst at higher levels, you'll probably be looking to add heroism to the mix, especially if your party lacks a bard. At 10 min/level duration, you should be able to keep it on you all day with the help of some rods of metamagic-extend. Resilient sphere/emergency force sphere/dimension door (from the Cheliax source book) will also go a long way in making sure you have a way out when you get focused (and truth be told, you should always avoid this as much as possible).
As for the offense, there's alot more variety in the choices you have. At first level, a reach weapon, power attack and true strike should give you quite some mileage. Alternatively, there's an APG spell that boosts the damage of your bows, and when you reach third level spells, twilight knife can help to supplement the damage (don't make it a priority though). Ray of enfeeblement and fumbling touch (APG) help to boost your offence and defence indirectly.
Beyond that, you can choose to go the beefcake route (and dragon bloodline with a few levels of dragon disciple is probably the best option for this route, and you might want to plan your feats to synergise with a polymorph form-off the cuff, a pouncing animal strikes me as a good option if you can get an amulet of mighty fists), but with spells like calcific touch and the promised line up of new touch spells coming out in the APG, you can probably also get by with a ray/touch attack specialist. The advantage to this would be that you do not suffer that much from multiple attribute dependency, and if done right your efforts will still be valuable to the team. However, I would advise you in either scenario to always keep in mind that you are not as tough as a front-liner, nor are you as good at hitting. You will always be outclassed in a straight-out fight against a melee type, so you should only be in mellee when you've prepared such that anyone looking at you with arcane sight should have to make a save or be dazzled from the sheer number of magical auras he sees on you and your opponent. You won't be the dps mosnter that you could have been in D&D 3.5, but played smart, you can be no less effective.