Half-Orc Ranger


Advice


I'm looking at playing a half-orc switch hitter ranger (as per Treantmonk's Guide). I realize a human is perhaps the optimal race for this build, but I simply have a love of half-orcs.

25pt build, starting at 3rd level

Strength 18 (includes +2)
Dexterity 15
Constitution 15
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 13
Charisma 7

Feats (starting at 3rd, so order for 1 & 3 don't really matter)
1 - Quickdraw
2 (bonus) - Rapid Shot
3 - Power Attack

Opinions? Suggestions? Everything else will pretty well follow Treantmonk's guide. I was looking at maybe taking the Skirmisher from the APG, but I've never played a caster before, and figured that even what little spell ability a ranger has could be fun.

Liberty's Edge

Personally, I'd drop either Con or Dex (probably Dex, speaking mechanics-wise) and raise Wis. One odd Ability score you actually care about can be taken care of at 4th level, three is more or less just throwing points away, since you want to focus on Strength with your level-ups at least somewhat. It'll also improve your Will save, which is nice, and ensure your full 4 levels of spells.


Percise strike might be better than power attack if others take the same "teamwork feat"

Link

This makes level dips into rogue less tempting!


@Kenderkin: In regards to Precise Strike, I may look into that for a later feat selection once the group gets going and I can plan it out with one of our melee players.

@Deadmanwalking: So you're suggesting starting out with something more like Strength: 18, Dexterity: 14, Constitution: 15, Intelligence: 12, Wisdom: 14, Charisma: 7, boosting Constitution at 4th and then putting the rest into Strength? (I was going to raise Dexterity at 4, Constitution at 8, Wisdom at 12 [still keeping up with spell access], and Strength at 16 and 20.).


Start with Power Attack instead of Quickdraw. Early on the damage is more important than the ability to swap weapons. Also you do not gain multiple attacks until 6th level anyways. You may also want to pick up Deadly aim at 3rd and wait for 5th for Quickdraw.

From a point standpoint the more you put into a single stat the higher the return. I would suggest the following STR 17, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 7. All increases go to STR. AT 20th level you will have a 22 STR without stat boosting items. Point wise is works out to be an Extra three points total.

A spell casting Ranger is much better than a Skirmisher. The APG gave the Ranger some really nice spells. Particularly Gravity Bow, Lead Blades, and Instant Enemy. The important thing is to really know your spells. Because the Ranger has other abilities they make a good class to play as your first caster.

Also consider Boon Companion to boost your pet through the roof. If you are in a campaign that does not involve a lot of dungeon crawls a Wolf with Boon Companion at 7th level is a beast. Treantmonk recommends a Cheetah/Leopard, but if you are going to be outdoors a lot a Wolf is better. It becomes Large and gets a better Stat boost. Add this to the fact that you can use it as a mount and it becomes a much better choice.


@Mysterious Stranger: The order of those first three Feat choices isn't really relevant with us actually starting at 3rd level, so my selections at this point are basically simultaaneous. The Quickdraw would enable me to ready my melee weapon as a free action once enemies close, the basic intent of a switch hitter.

Your ability scores suggest concentrating on Strength much like an earlier post, and I see both of your points. However, unless I've added my numbers wrong, yours is a 31 point build.

I've pretty much settled on leaving the spell casting ability intact for the reasons listed above.

The wolf is most definitely my choice for an animal companion. Iconic on it's own, and especially so with a half-orc.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Start with Power Attack instead of Quickdraw. Early on the damage is more important than the ability to swap weapons. Also you do not gain multiple attacks until 6th level anyways. You may also want to pick up Deadly aim at 3rd and wait for 5th for Quickdraw.

From a point standpoint the more you put into a single stat the higher the return. I would suggest the following STR 17, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 7. All increases go to STR. AT 20th level you will have a 22 STR without stat boosting items. Point wise is works out to be an Extra three points total.

Con 14 is enough so I would start with dex 16 or boost str,wis or char.

Char is not bad if your DM actually want you to role play.
Furious Focus from the APG is a great feat. Especially if you Skirmisher.

I'm not sure Treantmonk's reading of Manyshot is legal so talk with your DM.


This is a 25 Pt buy. STR 17 (15 +2 Racial) DEX 14, CON 16, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 7. By 20th Level after all your stat increases for level you will have a 22 STR. DEX and CON can be swapped, but I would recommend CON being higher. Mithral full plate has a max DEX bonus of +3. If you already have that then if you get a DEX boosting item you cannot make full use of it. CON on the other hand has no limit.


First I'd say that the Half Orc makes a great Ranger. Darkvision alone is a solid benefit for any perception based class. There are some solid alternative racial traits for the Half Orc as well that would be useful for a switch hitter ranger; I'd consider those to fall under personal prefernce though as its hard to judge some of them as far as optimization. Whatever you think sounds cool would work. (I personally like toothy for the switch hitter, especially if you use a reach weapon as your primary melee weapon. But even without the reach weapon its nice to have a close melee attack while having a bow in hand.)

I'd agree that Con isn't quite as important to the Switch Hitter as is Dex or Wis.

Personally I'd place emphasis on ability scores in the following order:

Str, Dex, Wis, Con, Int, Cha

Dex is important for AC, reflex saves, skills, and possibly extra attacks from combat reflexes.

Wis is important for skills, spellcasting, and will saves (your bad save).

14 Con is plenty, as you get a d10 HD already, and can and probably should but your favored class bonus into hit points.

The 12 Int will give you 7 skill points each level, which should be just right. Its not uncommon to see Human Rangers with 10 Int. So that should leave that favored class bonus free for hit points.

Your feat choices are just right, although if starting at 1st I'd also agree that Power Attack is more important at 1st then Quickdraw. I like QD at 3rd for the Switch Hitter, then Deadly Aim at 5th.

Skirmisher seems fun, but Rangers get some awesome spells. And none of the skirmisher abilities top the 3rd and 4th lvl Ranger spells. I'd probably only do skirmisher if my wisdom were crap and I'd be limited in spellcasting anyways.

Probably the only Archetype I'd consider for a Switch Hitter would be Spirit Ranger. You lose the animal companion, but for some this is a bonus as companions can be squishy and a bother to keep track of. The big benefit of Spirit Ranger is the extra spells per day, one every four levels starting at 4th (2 at 8, 3 at 12, 4 at 16, 5 at 20.) Whats really nice is that the spell choices for these bonus spells aren't tied to any particular spell level, thus at 12th level it could be 3 bonus 3rd level spells, and not necessarily a bonus 1st 2nd and 3rd level spell. (Although you could do that if it works best for you on any particular day.) The really big thing is that these spells do not need to prepared in advance, basically giving a spontaneous casting of ANY Ranger spell when you need it, limited only by the level of Ranger spells you can cast. Thus, for example, at 16th level the Spirit Ranger gets 4 spells that he can spontaneously cast of any Ranger spell; thats a lot of extra Instant Enemy spells each day, if so needed. I think this really makes the Ranger much more versatile, being able to call up the very nice Ranger spells as circumstances dictate.

Have you figured on a primary melee weapon or style? This will probably depend on the make up of your party as to which works best, but I'm very fond of a reach weapons for Rangers due to their higher dex (for combat reflexes benefits) and their lower AC relative to the other melee types who have heavy armor and/or shields. (Rangers can use sheilds, so its a good idea to have one and a decent one handed weapon for when you need the extra AC.) This will also impact your feat selection greatly down the line, as you will want to focus your later feats on your melee prowess, and that will depend on the nature of your melee combat style. (i.e. using high crit weapons with crit feats, using high damage two handed weapons, using reach weapons, etc.)

The key to the Switch Hitter, and any Ranger really, is to be a good boy scout and Always Be Prepared. Versatility is the most important quality for the ranger, being able to respond to the situation at hand. Thats why the spells are important, especially the spontaneous spells for the Spirit Ranger. But also having several different types of weapons on hand, such as ranged, reach, one handed/sheild, and/or big damage dealing weapon such as a greatsword or falchion. And having the mundance tools and kits needed at the time.

Have fun with your character. I think he sounds great and that you are on the right track. Switch Hitter is one of my favorite class types to play because you get to do so much and are useful in almost any circumstance (except social!). And I think the Half Orc will be great for this.


@Zark: As far as the Charisma goes, I'm playing this guy more or less as one step out of the Orc tribe that raised him, and not much more charismatic than a beast himself. I'll check with my GM on Manyshot.

@ Mysterious Stranger: Ah! That's what it was. I didn't know where you had put the +2 so I didn't include that in my figuring. As far as your final statement aboux Dexterity, if I didn't have a Dexterity booting item though, I would still have that bonus. Even if I did, anything above a +1 item would be useless much the same, correct?

@Father Dale: So what do you think would be an acceptable WIsdom score? You comment about Intelligence is exactly the reason I took a 12! :) We're starting at 3rd, so the timing of my choosing Power Attack and Quickdraw doesn't really matter. That's just the order I wrote them in. I haven't looked at the Spirit Ranger, but that does sound interesting. Primary melee weapon? Most likely either Greataxe (for flavor) or Falchion (for the crits). Honestly, I hadn't thought about carrying a shield/one hander. Thanks for pointing that out. Remember, Intimidation is a social skill! :)


You would still have the DEX bonus if you did not have a stat boosting item. Unless you have a really high DEX 1 Point on AC is probably not going to be a big deal. But if you are wearing the mithral full plate the DEX is not going to be as important for AC. Now Extra HP, and better Fortitude saves are always welcome. Reflex saves tend to be damage based, where the Fortitude saves are S.O.D, or S.O.S.

Either CON or DEX are both important to the Ranger. I figured for the Half Orc the CON would be more appropriate. I was thinking of a belt of physical perfection would be a good boost. Those are expensive so getting one with a high bonus would be tough.


ChuckSC6568 wrote:

@Father Dale: So what do you think would be an acceptable WIsdom score? You comment about Intelligence is exactly the reason I took a 12! :) We're starting at 3rd, so the timing of my choosing Power Attack and Quickdraw doesn't really matter. That's just the order I wrote them in. I haven't looked at the Spirit Ranger, but that does sound interesting. Primary melee weapon? Most likely either Greataxe (for flavor) or Falchion (for the crits). Honestly, I hadn't thought about carrying a shield/one hander. Thanks for pointing that out. Remember, Intimidation is a social skill! :)

My group always rolls for stats, so I look at ability scores more in order of importance than as a question of raw number. But I'd think a 14 would be sufficient, although I'd be tempted to put the 16 into it as well. But I think the 14s in Wis and Con are solid as the examples above put forth. And given that the Switch Hitter intends to use his bow for attacks quite often, the extra points in Dex help with more than just AC and Reflex saves.

Yeah, you can get by socially with Intimidate if wanted. I usually play the dark and silent type with Rangers though. Think Strider at the Prancing Pony in Bree, thats the kind of Rangers I do.

You don't really need a primary weapon per se. But your later feat choices should have some synergy with each other, and that usually narrows down your weapon choices some. Really, the Ranger should be able to use effectively whatever weapon he has at hand. But you will want some focus.

For instance, if going with reach weapons primarily, your optimal feat choices will be different than if using say a falchion or a longsword and shield. In such a case, combat reflexes would be an optimal feat choice, whereas you wouldn't get as much use out of combat reflexes if primarily using a falchion. Likewise, the critical feats are far more useful to a falchion user than to a greataxe user.

Generally though, unless you are the parties primary melee combatant, your melee style will be focused by what the other party members are doing. For example, if you have a tank type fighter and a two weapon fighting rogue in the party, you would probably want a reach weapon so as to offer easier flanking bonuses for the rogue and to attack the fighters targets from behind if necessary. But say your party consists of a raging barbarian and a summoner with an eidolon, you might want a more maneuverable combatant, focusing on something like spring attack with a high damage weapon. Or you might want to focus more on 'battlefield control' by using say a trip weapon. It really comes down to how you want to contribute to the melee fights based on what your other party members are doing. But you will have time to figure all that out as you play and see how you are mostly using the character in fights, and then you can choose your feats based on that.


Father Dale wrote:

First I'd say that the Half Orc makes a great Ranger. Darkvision alone is a solid benefit for any perception based class. There are some solid alternative racial traits for the Half Orc as well that would be useful for a switch hitter ranger; I'd consider those to fall under personal prefernce though as its hard to judge some of them as far as optimization. Whatever you think sounds cool would work. (I personally like toothy for the switch hitter, especially if you use a reach weapon as your primary melee weapon. But even without the reach weapon its nice to have a close melee attack while having a bow in hand.)

Another nice alternate racial trait from the APG is Sacred Tattoo.

+1 luck bonus on all saving throws is very good and it replaces the orc ferocity racial trait. The orc ferocity racial trait is a death trap and I never liked it.

Father Dale wrote:

I'd agree that Con isn't quite as important to the Switch Hitter as is Dex or Wis.

Personally I'd place emphasis on ability scores in the following order:

Str, Dex, Wis, Con, Int, Cha

Dex is important for AC, reflex saves, skills, and possibly extra attacks from combat reflexes.

Wis is important for skills, spellcasting, and will saves (your bad save).

14 Con is plenty, as you get a d10 HD already, and can and probably should but your favored class bonus into hit points.

The 12 Int will give you 7 skill points each level, which should be just right. Its not uncommon to see Human Rangers with 10 Int. So that should leave that favored class bonus free for hit points.

+1

Remember your character is not a melee character, it's a melee and archer character so you will need dex. Dex also boost the dex skills. Stealth, acrobatics, fly and ride are all nice skills. A ranger without stealth isn't really a ranger is it? ;-)

You do want a good wisdom score. Will saves, perception, spells, etc. If you don't plan using a animal Hunter’s Bond is an option, but Spirit Ranger might be a better options. I guess it's a matter of taste. m
But with a good wisdom score a Hunter’s Bond with your hunting companions can be very powerful.

Good wisdom score? As for wisdom 14 is enough to start with. Eventually you want 18 so you get a bonus spell at each spell level, but you can get a headband so 14 is enough. High wisdom also helps you with DC. but you won't rely on spells that calls for a save. At lower level Entangle might be good but I'd stay away from attack spells.

Spells: At level 7 you get 2:nd level spells so you want at least 14 wis so you get an extra Barkskin, etc.
You should also get an Extend Metamagic rod.....or perhaps two of them. Traits that boost you caster level isn't bad when you have spells such as Resist Energy, Barkskin, etc.

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